JUCO academics - help

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Aug 26, 2011
1,285
0
Houston, Texas
DD is a top student at her school - class rank 26 out of 840 students; good SAT/ACT scores; has volunteer and extracurriculars on resume; etc. School is good academic school and is sought after by international students for their value. Because DD didn't take enough AP courses, they declined any merit aid. She had her reasons for not going overboard on the AP classes, but whatever. We simply cannot afford to pay for her school - even for one year (she has 2 younger brothers that we have to tend to too). And seeing that she wants to go to med school, she is trying to go into med school debt free - she knows the importance of this. It has been really tough these last few weeks having to accept the writing on the wall - she has been grieving her loss of being able to attend the school of choice. So with all that said, she is exploring the JUCO route (unless some offer better miraculously falls into her lap). What she is having a very hard time accepting is the level of academics at JUCO. I have tried to convince her that the basics are the same at every school regardless of division (except maybe the very elite schools). Does anyone have experience with regards to the academic levels of the basics as compared to a D1-D3 school? What about documentation? I have pointed out a couple of players that we know that went JUCO and are academically strong students...but she is being stubborn accepting it for what it is. Will she be disadvantaged academically if she starts out JUCO and then transfers to a strong academic program?

Any information/advice would be great.

Thanks.
 
Feb 17, 2014
7,152
113
Orlando, FL
DD is a top student at her school - class rank 26 out of 840 students; good SAT/ACT scores; has volunteer and extracurriculars on resume; etc. School is good academic school and is sought after by international students for their value. Because DD didn't take enough AP courses, they declined any merit aid. She had her reasons for not going overboard on the AP classes, but whatever. We simply cannot afford to pay for her school - even for one year (she has 2 younger brothers that we have to tend to too). And seeing that she wants to go to med school, she is trying to go into med school debt free - she knows the importance of this. It has been really tough these last few weeks having to accept the writing on the wall - she has been grieving her loss of being able to attend the school of choice. So with all that said, she is exploring the JUCO route (unless some offer better miraculously falls into her lap). What she is having a very hard time accepting is the level of academics at JUCO. I have tried to convince her that the basics are the same at every school regardless of division (except maybe the very elite schools). Does anyone have experience with regards to the academic levels of the basics as compared to a D1-D3 school? What about documentation? I have pointed out a couple of players that we know that went JUCO and are academically strong students...but she is being stubborn accepting it for what it is. Will she be disadvantaged academically if she starts out JUCO and then transfers to a strong academic program?

Any information/advice would be great.

Thanks.


Like they say, it ain't the arrow, it's the Indian. I know of several players that went the JUCO route who went on to Medical / Vet Schools. Like anything else if she applies herself she will do just fine.
 
Jul 19, 2014
2,390
48
Madison, WI
I once had an interesting discussion with an doctor who got his MD at Johns Hopkins. Did I mention he went to John Hopkins Med School? Anyway, this doctor who had attended Johns Hopkins said nobody cared where he did his undergrad work. I have no idea where he went as an undergrad. He never mentioned it.

I did go to a prestigious undergrad school. First off, when I lived overseas for a while, nobody had every heard of it. Call it Fancy College. (Not the real name). In the overseas country where I lived, "college" meant a program where people would skip the last 3 years of HS and go to a 5 year "college" and get the equivalent of an associates degree. University meant a real school. So going to Fancy College was worse for job hunting than if I had gone to East Podunk University.

Finally, some people did a study of students who attended Fancy College and a nearby state school, Penn State. When HS GPA and SAT scores were factored in, the Fancy College students did better in life. (For example, one of my college buddies spent time as White House Science Adviser, another was a famous entrepreneur in Bangladesh, and a guy I almost roomed with is now a US Senator).

BUT, when they looked at students who were accepted to Fancy College but attended Penn State, there was absolutely no difference between those students and the students who attended Fancy College. The conclusion -- Fancy College had a great Admissions Office which could often find potential winners, but winners were winners wherever they went to school.

Remember, the two richest people who attended Harvard dropped out. (Gates and Zuckerberg). Gates got his start because of his father's connections.

The main gist of it, as riseball said, it's the Indian, not the arrow.
If your daughter is going to do well in life, she will do well at Dogpatch Community College or at Oxbridge University.

There are even some benefits to attending a 2-year college.

A local 2-year college, Madison College, aka Madison Area Technical College, has an interesting program. If you are admitted to a certain track, and you maintain a 3.0 GPA, and get your associates degree, you are guaranteed a transfer to the University of Wisconsin at Madison. In fact, it is easier to get into UW Madison as an MATC transfer than as a freshman.

Why?

UW Madison is a really tough school, and also one of the hardest partying schools in the US. My DD 1 is a pre-med who says she never drinks, and she has horror stories about friends and dorm-mates that would curl your hair. DW has been sworn to secrecy, and isn't allowed to tell a friend of hers that her friend's DD was hospitalized for alcohol poisoning, and was abandoned by her drinking mates, and is lucky to be alive because an RA found her. So, many students wash out, either because the courses are too tough, or they are too immature, or they drink way too much, or all of the above.

Who takes these places?

The students who spent two years at other UW campii, or Madison College and the other 2-year Technical Colleges in Wisconsin, and who studied hard and got good grades.
 
Feb 17, 2015
318
18
USA
This is just an example. My DD is a sophomore at a JUCO. She currently has a 3.94 GPA in college after graduating high school with a 3.3 GPA. Her ACT was a 25. She has been recruited out of junior college to play at the D2 and D3 level. The school she ended up choosing gave her a $32,000 transfer scholarship (academic) based on her GPA. It is a small D3 with a good academic track record. She will have to take out $13,000 in loans over two years and her mom and I will cover the rest. Our portion will be a little more than what we were paying at the JUCO level. While she is not debt free, $13,000 in student loans is pretty good for a 4 year education.
 
Feb 4, 2015
127
0
Olathe, KS
I am in the original posters shoes. At this time we can contribute very little to our DD's college education. She has been diligently working on academic scholarships and we will hear back from them starting this month. She has a goal to have less than $20,000 in loans when she graduates and is well on her way do keeping it well below that. She will be attending a D2 college and has received what will be $8000 over her 4 years just by having a 25 ACT. There are millions of academic and silly scholarships that go unclaimed every year. You can get a lot of free money for college if your daughter is just willing to spend a little time on the internet.

Just take a look at Fastweb.com and it is amazing the amount of money that is out there. Look at you in state regents colleges. You will be surprised at what you find in what they publish with regards to academic scholarship and even more surprised in what they do not publish once you commit to the college. If she wants a STEM degree there is boat loads of money for women that want to be in a STEM career. My DD is doing Chemistry with the goal of being a HS Chemistry teacher.

Not every college is the same and some D1's and D2's have great programs for instate students.
 
Last edited:
Mar 26, 2013
1,934
0
DD is a top student at her school - class rank 26 out of 840 students; good SAT/ACT scores; has volunteer and extracurriculars on resume; etc. School is good academic school and is sought after by international students for their value. Because DD didn't take enough AP courses, they declined any merit aid. ... What she is having a very hard time accepting is the level of academics at JUCO. I have tried to convince her that the basics are the same at every school regardless of division (except maybe the very elite schools). Does anyone have experience with regards to the academic levels of the basics as compared to a D1-D3 school? What about documentation? I have pointed out a couple of players that we know that went JUCO and are academically strong students...but she is being stubborn accepting it for what it is. Will she be disadvantaged academically if she starts out JUCO and then transfers to a strong academic program?
I take it she is a HS senior about to graduate and you don't have any other options. I've long heard TX public colleges were very affordable for residents between the low tuition and generous state grants - has that changed in recent years?

Starting at a JUCO varies by the JC and intended 4-year college. Some JCs have very successful programs for students to transfer after 2 years and get a 4-yr degree 2 years later. IMO you plan by starting with where you want to transfer and work backward based on their degree requirements and policies regarding transferable classes/units. Most classes just satisfy isolated requirements and can safely be taken at a JC. The ones to watch out for are the foundational ones that are prerequisites for advanced classes. Some kids that get AP college credit run into the same problem because what they took isn't up to snuff with the more advanced/rigorous 1st year class at the university. If possible, satisfy both the foundational and advanced class at the JC.
 
Mar 3, 2016
47
0
I'm going to throw a small wrench in here. First, will the other children be in college at the same time as the daughter? For us, our family contribution was maxed out at one child, so the second was "free".
If the JUCO is not academically rigorous enough, she could have trouble making the transition, especially for premed. The proverbial "make it or break it" premed course is organic chemistry. If the course is not rigorous enough, the MCAT score won't be high enough, and DD won't be accepted at Med School.
I know a few young men and women who got straight As at junior college, then transferred and ended up dropping their science major because it was too difficult.
I agree w/ SoCal Dad's advice to work backwards to avoid surprises and disappointments.
 

JAD

Feb 20, 2012
8,231
38
Georgia
JUCO is a great way for student athletes to get a degree at a substantial savings vs. a 4-year program, plus JUCOs usually offer a better opportunity for playing time. If your DD knows where she would like to finish her undergraduate degree, pick a JUCO that has a relationship with that school.
 
Feb 17, 2014
7,152
113
Orlando, FL
You want to chase fair balls at a JUCO for two years at basically zero cost? Or would you prefer to rack up debt chasing foul balls and charting pitches at BigNameU while you "wait for your turn"?
 
Mar 3, 2016
47
0
Call me crazy, but I think the point of this young lady's education is to attend medical school someday. More attention to academics than softball is warranted.

I've actually been on adcoms at med schools and advised lots of young women who want to be doctors. My main advise is that most students who want to go to med school wash out over math/science classes. They need to be well-prepared. Only about 1/2 of those who apply to med school actually get in , and rigor plus test scores really matter. In fact, I can spin a sad tale of a young lady playing D1 at a state school who took her science classes at JUCOs in the summer...Lovely girl, bright and hard-working...didn't get the test scores she needed and has had to find a new dream after 3 years of trying to be accepted. It's all going to work out fine for her, but chosing sport over academics with that goal long-term can backfire. I would be very careful that students from that JUCO had successful science careers after, and that there was a pre-med committee from the get-go.
 

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