Front Toss

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Apr 20, 2018
4,581
113
SoCal
I can- we are going out to hit in a bit!

When I first got a Hack it was a Jr. It took awhile to figure it out. Hitters hated it.

Also keep in mind, a Jugs Super Softball machine only throws perfect 12-6 spin. Its hard to make that spin look right.

Oh yeah. Even college hitter dd that sees them constantly was hitting some pull side gb’s last time we hit. It’s challenging for sure. I thought I had velo at 65 for a nice easy session. I had forgot to confirm the change I made to the speed. It was actually 71.

Prob do the same tonight, eventually it will be the 3 speed program, she HATES that. Rise, “fastball” and change. Pretty much no clue what pitch it will be, the sound of the machine is covered by Jethro Tull set to Volume 11.
In the shuffling madness, locomotion breath.
 
Aug 20, 2017
1,475
113
Most hitting coaches teach a feel on tees but then start flipping balls that don’t allow the hitter to feel the same “teach” during front toss. It’s not a match. If you are building a swing you want to allow the hitter to feel the same thing through the progression of dry swings, tees, side toss (some don’t use), front toss, pitching machine (some don’t use), live game swing. How can we make these match? You do not want the hitter feeling one thing on tees and then feeling something totally different during front toss.
 
Oct 26, 2019
1,375
113
Most hitting coaches teach a feel on tees but then start flipping balls that don’t allow the hitter to feel the same “teach” during front toss. It’s not a match. If you are building a swing you want to allow the hitter to feel the same thing through the progression of dry swings, tees, side toss (some don’t use), front toss, pitching machine (some don’t use), live game swing. How can we make these match? You do not want the hitter feeling one thing on tees and then feeling something totally different during front toss.
I see the same thing you see but in sort of the opposite direction. I see a lot of kids who come to me with very non-realistic tee swings. Tee swings that don’t look anything like their game swing. Huge loads and a lot of extra movement that works fine off the tee, but when the ball stops moving and they don’t have as much time, they change everything. I call this “tee timing”. They have the tee timed perfectly, except in the game the ball moves.

Now I know we can always start earlier, but young kids IME lack the core strength and coordination necessary to control a larger/earlier load.
 
Sep 22, 2021
382
43
Sioux Falls, SD
I see the same thing you see but in sort of the opposite direction. I see a lot of kids who come to me with very non-realistic tee swings. Tee swings that don’t look anything like their game swing. Huge loads and a lot of extra movement that works fine off the tee, but when the ball stops moving and they don’t have as much time, they change everything. I call this “tee timing”. They have the tee timed perfectly, except in the game the ball moves.

Now I know we can always start earlier, but young kids IME lack the core strength and coordination necessary to control a larger/earlier load.
Because they do very little tee work if any at all, that's why it's all over the map and nothing like how they swing when they go to a tee. Tee work in general when done properly and the million drills you can do with it, will absolutely correct form and build dicipline if the coach/instructor knows what to build on and correct. Tee work shouldn't be just done here and there and when you feel like it. You can work on every single weakness a hitter has off the tee, because you can break it down better to rid bad habits.

I also don't agree with lack of core strengt and coordination at 10 years and up, below yes, but not at 10 up...It normally is the parent knows no better, and wants to buy the bat that lasts 3 years. :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad: The single biggest issue I see in general, before you even have a kid start swinging, is a bat that is not correctly sized and weighted. Barrel control needs to happen and that starts with a properly sized bat.
 
Oct 26, 2019
1,375
113
Because they do very little tee work, that's why it's all over the map and nothing like how they swing when they go to a tee. Tee work in general when done properly and the many drills you can do will correct form and build dicipline. Tee work shouldn't be just done here and there and when you feel like it. You can work on every single weakness a hitter has, because you can break it down better to rid bad habits.

I also don't agree with lack of core strengty and coordination at 10 years and up, below yes, but not at 10 up...It normally is the parent knows no better, and wants to buy the bat that lasts 3 years. :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad: The single biggest issue I see in general, before you even have a kid start swinging, is a bat that is not correctly sized and weighted. Barrel control needs to happen and that starts with a properly sized bat.
I think the tee can be a good tool if used properly, but I see a lot of issues with how kids use the tee and if done wrong, can do more harm than good. IMO, there is no substitute for game realistic bp.

I was blessed with a father who played professionally and could throw great bp. I don’t just mean the normal dad bp either. My old man threw full windup gas from full distance to me. He threw fastballs, curveballs, changeup, you name it. I never appreciated the advantage it gave me over my peers. Nothing I faced in a game was ever harder to hit than my old man.

Contrast this with how most dads throw their daughters. We hit on the tee and we flip some balls underhand (usually not even a full windmill). This is nothing close to what they see in games.

Just some late night ramblings…
 
Jun 8, 2016
16,118
113
I was blessed with a father who played professionally and could throw great bp. I don’t just mean the normal dad bp either. My old man threw full windup gas from full distance to me. He threw fastballs, curveballs, changeup, you name it.
Same here minus the professional part (although he did pitch in college)
 
Sep 22, 2021
382
43
Sioux Falls, SD
I think the tee can be a good tool if used properly, but I see a lot of issues with how kids use the tee and if done wrong, can do more harm than good. IMO, there is no substitute for game realistic bp.

I was blessed with a father who played professionally and could throw great bp. I don’t just mean the normal dad bp either. My old man threw full windup gas from full distance to me. He threw fastballs, curveballs, changeup, you name it. I never appreciated the advantage it gave me over my peers. Nothing I faced in a game was ever harder to hit than my old man.

Contrast this with how most dads throw their daughters. We hit on the tee and we flip some balls underhand (usually not even a full windmill). This is nothing close to what they see in games.

Just some late night ramblings…
Don't get me wrong, live pitching and a stong front toss game is always needed...but live timing is one thing, not fixing fundamental issues with good timing does no good! It's easier to work on weaknesses and expose issues on a tee, then use said drills to work on ridding bad habits. You are correct though, if someone just sets up a tee and just starts swinging with zero point, you get zero gain. Tee work is sooooooo good in seeing weight distribution, footwork, balance, weight dumps, tilt issues, extension issues, bat wrapping, casting, etc. I want these corrected one at a time, because if you try to see all and fix all outside of tee work, it's an insane mess. Start tee work with certain drills doing to contact swings first, to extensions, to full swings on tee...multiple drills that you want to focus on, then you move to front toss, etc...and the hitter can feel and make adjustments better as well when missing. AGAIN, it matters that whoever is helping the player knows some basic fundamental tee work drills and what they can do, along with what to look for in correcting any issues. I mean, I'm not even getting into sidway tee work, the flat bat work you can do on them, mini bat tee work, and the pipe drills, etc.
 
Jan 6, 2009
6,591
113
Chehalis, Wa
I see the same thing you see but in sort of the opposite direction. I see a lot of kids who come to me with very non-realistic tee swings. Tee swings that don’t look anything like their game swing. Huge loads and a lot of extra movement that works fine off the tee, but when the ball stops moving and they don’t have as much time, they change everything. I call this “tee timing”. They have the tee timed perfectly, except in the game the ball moves.

Now I know we can always start earlier, but young kids IME lack the core strength and coordination necessary to control a larger/earlier load.

Are you saying not to coil where the load turns into the swing?

Even Walt said in his book that at a certain point the upper and lower are going in opposite directions.
 
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