Spin, Speed or Spot??? in light of the WCWS

[DNeeld]

You didn’t and it would matter because I have a theory that many people who dismiss the relevance of speed (not that you were doing that.. explicitly at least) have daughters who don’t throw hard….

100% true.
On the same hand, I've never understood most parent's desire to compare their kiddo to the top 1% as if it holds some kind of relevance.

Pattar asked earlier how is she compared to her peers.... that's the relevant question. How fast was my DD? Fast enough to earn several district and state honors in her HS career and get some interest from some colleges. Not fast enough to even get a glance from a P5 school. She was good, among the top in her peer group, but nowhere near that "elite" group. And that's fine. She won a couple of state championships which is a lot more than many of her peers accomplished.

There is a wide range of talent out there and by definition 99% aren't going to make it to the "elite" ranks. Not like it's a failure if your kiddo doesn't.

I suppose this was a long winded way to say it's best to worry about how your DD is doing compared to her compitition and not worry how she compares to the top handful of pitchers in the nation.

 

[Chilixa]

Also the variance between a fast pitch and a Change-Up whether that is a 55 mph pitch slowing to 45 mph or a 65 mph pitch slowing to 55 mph it is the same speed decrease. In either of those cases it is still a timing element that is basically the same adjustment for the batter.

It may be the same difference but the one that throws 65mph will be more effective. The batter has less time to make up their mind and commit to the swing. They are less likely to recognize a change up with the faster pitcher.

When all other things are equal the one with the better speed has the advantage. I think the easiest way to figure out what matters the most is to consider what you would select if you had a real option. I would pick elite speed every time and I would work on the other areas. Speed can cover up for a lot of deficiencies in other areas because of the pressure it puts on batters.


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[radness]

It may be the same difference but the one that throws 65mph will be more effective. The batter has less time to make up their mind and commit to the swing. They are less likely to recognize a change up with the faster pitcher.

When all other things are equal the one with the better speed has the advantage. I think the easiest way to figure out what matters the most is to consider what you would select if you had a real option. I would pick elite speed every time and I would work on the other areas. Speed can cover up for a lot of deficiencies in other areas because of the pressure it puts on batters.


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Simply speed does not bother players that are used to it.

 

[radness]

When all other things are equal the one with the better speed has the advantage. I think the easiest way to figure out what matters the most is to consider what you would select if you had a real option. I would pick elite speed every time and I would work on the other areas. Speed can cover up for a lot of deficiencies in other areas because of the pressure it puts on batters.


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I would select a pitcher with control.
Control has a lot more options.
Heres my take on speed~
65mph is a more common mph that batters face. Would not consider that Elite Beyond 16u.

Example, In travel ball 12u pitchers breaking 60 mph. True some teams are not prepared for it and the pitcher gets a lot of strikeouts but when they play a properly competitive composed team it becomes a pitcher/batter dual.
Not many teams get accustomed to facing that type of pitching that early on. However batters get used to that by 14u because 60mph is more common..

I have caught for Elite Speed that threw over 70 mph. And hit against it.
Not many players get to face that consistently to get a custom to it. But the players that do get to face that learn what it is like and top speed becomes irrelevant.

With all the great training that hitters are able to do it is very easy to prepare for faster pitching/70 mph pitching and that is one of the reasons why we see hitters controlling the game.

If equal competition is playing each other there will be both strikeouts and base hits. imo either pitcher fast or controlling slow speed location can dominate.
However about speed alone... If we look at college ball will see that some teams are stacked with better hitters.
If speed could have been the only element that would have beat those hitters,....
those hitters would have adjusted/prepared within short time to stay on track with their timing.

 

[JayW]

Hmmm no...the Harder someone throws the faster spin there is~ is not so.

Rather This~ True that tighter spin can help increase velocity but spin in itself does not create velocity. Spin rate does not mean the pitch itself will be faster.

*There are definitely pitchers that are slower than the hardest throwers that spin rate is greater than the pitcher who throws harder.
* this is why spin creates illusion on speed velocity of pitches.

Also the variance between a fast pitch and a Change-Up whether that is a 55 mph pitch slowing to 45 mph or a 65 mph pitch slowing to 55 mph it is the same speed decrease. In either of those cases it is still a timing element that is basically the same adjustment for the batter.

this is baseball but i imagine the science is the same. https://blogs.fangraphs.com/more-spin-more-problems-hitter-performance-against-high-spin-fastballs/

also, as someone else pointed out, it seems fairly obvious that a faster pitcher requires the batter to commit earlier, thus leaving less time to hold up on a change-up.

 

[_MIA_]

This whole conversation is silly

this is baseball but i imagine the science is the same. https://blogs.fangraphs.com/more-spin-more-problems-hitter-performance-against-high-spin-fastballs/

also, as someone else pointed out, it seems fairly obvious that a faster pitcher requires the batter to commit earlier, thus leaving less time to hold up on a change-up.

Pedro Martinez was almost unhittable when he threw 97-98 and then after his arm problems, when he was throwing low 90’s, was merely above average. I doubt he forgot how to pitch or locate or throw his change up..

 

[radness]

There's that old comparing travel ball and softball to pro baseball again.
Except....
Certainly Pedro Martinez had incredible control not just speed.
Sooo that comparison is not the same as speed only to work with vs control, n spin.

____________________
Got it instead of
'Breaking down the elements of pitching'
And selecting one element over another you did a combo and pulled out from your magic hat LOL bring up a pro baseball player to compare speed... except you pick someone who has 'ultimate control' and speed.
________________________
I was choosing one of the elements over another speed versus location/control


LOL of course people would want an Elite Speed pitcher who also had control that's everything in a handbasket. Silly MLB comparison to a discussion about the different elements of pitching

 

[_MIA_]

Certainly Pedro Martinez had incredible control not just speed.

Sooo that comparison is not the same as speed only to work with

____________________
Got it instead of
'Breaking down the elements of pitching'
And selecting one element over another you did a combo and pulled out from your magic hat LOL bring up a pro baseball player to compare speed... except you pick someone who has 'ultimate control' and speed.
________________________
I was choosing one of the elements over another speed versus location/control
__________________________

Soooo ask this



Would you pick a
top speed in softball that's 72mph
would you pick a top speed pitcher with no control
over a pitcher who threw 65 mph with control?

???

_____________________

What would you pick? I’ll pick the opposite..

This is getting dumb. Control is important as is speed. That said I would take somebody with six sigma speed and 1 sigma control over somebody with 6 sigma control and 1 sigma speed.

 

[radness]

Educate yourself…

Cranky from your Colorado trip? Maybe the heat blast and gnarly Porta-Potties pushed you a little more over an edge...

 

[_MIA_]

Cranky from your Colorado trip? Maybe the heat blast and gnarly Porta-Potties pushed you a little more over an edge...

What was weird about my post? I was implying that if you are answering somebody hit reply and then I answered your question about who I would choose

Didn’t go to watch any games so no porta potty..watched the livestream from the comfort of my air BnB…