Batting 9 vs roster batting

[JayW]

Sample size comes into play too though. If someone has been the best hitter on the team all season, or even multiple seasons, does it make sense to bench them on Sunday because they had a bad Saturday? to me, the consistently best hitters on the team have earned a pass for a "bad day".

I’m just thinking more of the coaches who tell the players that those who perform the best on Saturday will play on Sunday. Rarely true.

 

[radness]

I definitely would not condone this. However, most of the tournaments that we played in didn't have separate brackets on Sunday. There was only one bracket. So your record on Saturday determined your seeding for Sunday. Good record on Saturday typically leads to a weaker opponent in game 1 on Sunday. Poor record on Saturday got you a date with a tougher team in game 1 on Sunday.

When we were at 12u, winning one game on Sunday was our goal. And, unfortunately, we did not accomplish it very often. It's hard to get everyone much playing time if you are 1 and done. At 14u, we became more competitive. Winning games on Sunday was much more common, but we still struggled to finish the job. At 16u, our attitude completely flipped. Pool games really didn't matter at all because we were confident enough in our team that we expected to be in the championship round nearly every time. As a result, seeding didn't matter. We felt that if we played our best ball, we had a chance to compete with anyone there. If we were good enough to win the tournament it didn't matter if we faced a good team in game 1 or the final.

Oh yes seeding.
In that case wouldn't it be best to play your strongest on Saturday because your first game on Sunday would be against the weakest.!?

Supports comment about players should be able to play on either day!
Both game days matter!

Was thinking more of the Triple Crown tournaments where pool play decides what bracket on Sunday the team plays in, gold silver bronze aluminum tin.

Yes like that win at least one game Sunday.

Have said to teams okay great you made it to the gold bracket,
Now lets win that first game, prove we belong here.

 

[BB875]

So everybody that is advocating for cutting is fine with cutting a kid after the season has already started (because it has already started it appears) and most rosters are filled? To me that is more of a di*% move then possibly limiting their bracket ABs .

Little late here - But, I say however you set your final team in the fall, that is what you have. Period. Not sure about the "extra work" requirement to be honest. If you have practice 2-3 times per week, then she should be improving. Yes, top level kids get more reps and parents that support more work, but not every kid has that luxury. You can make her better! If you decide as a coaching staff that your team is going to bat 9 in tough elimination games, then just do it. Bat the roster on Saturday & adjust on Sunday to win games is a good call. No life lessons here, just managing the game which is your job.

Years ago I struggled with the same thing. One big tourney for us I remember I blew it. My DD was on fire that weekend at the plate (ASA so we could only bat 9) and I sat her in an elimination game because other kids needed to play to be fair. Of course as HC, and its your DD, I didn't want to appear to be biased. We lost and my AC said to me after the game, "Why the hell did you sit JB?" I blew it. That never happened again. In big games, put your best foot forward.

 

[uncdrew]

While I get why TDs do it (it is appealing to some that there can be multiple bracker "winners"), I am not a fan of "tiered" brackets. Opens up the possibility of manipulation of lineups (for those inclined to do so) in pool play, which wouldn't necessarily happen with one bracket. The manipulation can go from one spectrum (play all of your best players so you can try and get into the top bracket) to the other ("sandbag" to get into a lower bracket).

I like "tiered" brackets because it lets more parents post on facebook that they made it to the Championship game.

 

[_MIA_]

Little late here - But, I say however you set your final team in the fall, that is what you have. Period. Not sure about the "extra work" requirement to be honest. If you have practice 2-3 times per week, then she should be improving. Yes, top level kids get more reps and parents that support more work, but not every kid has that luxury. You can make her better! If you decide as a coaching staff that your team is going to bat 9 in tough elimination games, then just do it. Bat the roster on Saturday & adjust on Sunday to win games is a good call. No life lessons here, just managing the game which is your job.

Just to be clear, I don't coach...I only play (badly...) one on here. If I did, my kid would more than likely sit 3/4 of the time regardless of whether she hit .800 or .100...

 

[FP26]

Oh yes seeding.
In that case wouldn't it be best to play your strongest on Saturday because your first game on Sunday would be against the weakest.!?

It depends on the strength of your team. When we first started travel ball, seeding was extremely important to us. We experienced far too many 'one and dones' on Sunday, so we wanted to strengthen our position. As the quality of our team improved, the seeding was not as important. We were confident we could compete no matter what our seed was.

Playing 6 or 7 games in a weekend instead of 4 also takes care of a lot of your playing time challenges. There is a lot more playing time to share when you play those extra games.

 

[YOCOACH]

I definitely would not condone this. However, most of the tournaments that we played in didn't have separate brackets on Sunday. There was only one bracket. So your record on Saturday determined your seeding for Sunday. Good record on Saturday typically leads to a weaker opponent in game 1 on Sunday. Poor record on Saturday got you a date with a tougher team in game 1 on Sunday.

When we were at 12u, winning one game on Sunday was our goal. And, unfortunately, we did not accomplish it very often. It's hard to get everyone much playing time if you are 1 and done. At 14u, we became more competitive. Winning games on Sunday was much more common, but we still struggled to finish the job. At 16u, our attitude completely flipped. Pool games really didn't matter at all because we were confident enough in our team that we expected to be in the championship round nearly every time. As a result, seeding didn't matter. We felt that if we played our best ball, we had a chance to compete with anyone there. If we were good enough to win the tournament it didn't matter if we faced a good team in game 1 or the final.

Yep...if you're playing past 1:00 on Sunday you're generally doing well.

 

[YOCOACH]

I’m just thinking more of the coaches who tell the players that those who perform the best on Saturday will play on Sunday. Rarely true.

Defensively, my team is an elite level team. Offensively, we're a B+ level team. If my hitters would hit the way both I and they know they can, then we'd be an A+ team. If I can bat my roster, I'm doing so at 14U. On Sunday, IDC if my #4 takes a dump on Saturday, I have both the power hitters that can replace her as well as the position players. The best 9 will start Sunday regardless of who it is on my team if that's all I can bat. I built the team in such a fashion and trained them to be pretty much 'plug and play.' Maybe I'm the exception rather than the rule but I certainly hope not.

 

[Eric F]

I definitely would not condone this. However, most of the tournaments that we played in didn't have separate brackets on Sunday. There was only one bracket. So your record on Saturday determined your seeding for Sunday. Good record on Saturday typically leads to a weaker opponent in game 1 on Sunday. Poor record on Saturday got you a date with a tougher team in game 1 on Sunday.

When we were at 12u, winning one game on Sunday was our goal. And, unfortunately, we did not accomplish it very often. It's hard to get everyone much playing time if you are 1 and done. At 14u, we became more competitive. Winning games on Sunday was much more common, but we still struggled to finish the job. At 16u, our attitude completely flipped. Pool games really didn't matter at all because we were confident enough in our team that we expected to be in the championship round nearly every time. As a result, seeding didn't matter. We felt that if we played our best ball, we had a chance to compete with anyone there. If we were good enough to win the tournament it didn't matter if we faced a good team in game 1 or the final.

Exactly. "Pool games don't matter" is not reality in many tournaments.

Even for a TCS tiered structure, it can make a difference. At 14U Colorado Sparkler, my DD's team lost a 1-run pool game on a fluke play. A win would have put them in the gold bracket. The loss put them in the bronze bracket. It turns out that college coaches pay zero attention to 14U bronze bracket games. Meanwhile, our friends in the gold bracket saw a lot of coaches every day. They stomped their way through the bronze bracket before getting eliminated in the semis by the eventual bracket champion - another gold-level team who had one bad day in pool play. The upside is that they got to play more games than they probably would have in the gold bracket.

 

[marriard]

Written this before, but here you go:

If you are going to not bat your roster, then the game better matter. Most Pool games don't matter. Friendlies don't matter. Many bracket games don't matter.

If you are REALLY a travel team and you are even a half-way decent coach....

• Bat as many as you can in any game not on bracket day. Preferably everyone if the rules allow it.
• Even on bracket day, early in the day, if you KNOW you are going to WIN (because you are so much better) or LOSE (because you are so much worse) bat as many as you can
• USE DP/FLEX - you can get an extra player into the game - if the difference between say player 8 and player 12 isn't that much, DP/FLEX is a total godsend.
• If you are winning or losing by more than 8, then you better empty that bench.
• You can re-enter EVERY player once; so you can run for your batting lineup; even if it doesn't add speed it gets people in the game

Even on bracket day, I found a way to get EVERYONE in the game in some role. It doesn't have to be batting, but they get in. I always felt I failed if I didn't.