🙂 HAVE TO bring this up about defensive plays

[radness]

This past weekend watching 14U.

Runners on 1st & 3rd.
Coach called a defensive play.
Runner on first took off to second runner on third took a giant lead off. (giant)
Catcher no looking at 3rd threw directly to the shortstop standing at shortstop position in the base line. 3rd runner casually gets back to 3rd.
ss late throw to 3rd.
No out.
(Catcher Could have thrown directly to 3rd)

Same team another play runner on first only. 1st pitch.
Runner took a marginal lead off catcher made a late attempt trying to pick her off back pick at first. No out.
Then, Defense Coach calls out a play.
Runner takes a larger (noticeably larger) leadoff .

And Pitch was an obvious pitch out with a left-handed batter pitchout catcher goes way over stands up and throws the ball to first base,
but of course the runner was so far off first it was actually a delay steal and they had no chance at getting her at second base because the first baseman just went into her tag at first and there was no Runner.

My comment about this is...
If going to have a defensive play like throw it to shortstop or throw it to 1st. *There really should be some thinking presence on the field were even though you might want your catcher to throw it to your designated spot.
The thinking process on the field still needs to happen that play may not be the appropriate play pending what the runners are actually doing.

While there may be some coaches out there that may disagree with my coaching preference on this,
open it to dfp.
Watching that catcher the entire game and watching her own instincts and throws that she made on her own decisions...
Think she only made those two throws because it was a play where she was assigned to make that throw to those designated spots.
To that 14U catcher on the batbuster team support you being able to make the decision on what throw would have been better in those moments!

Hope this brings up comments and thinking process to help team's defense perform better!

 

[Yanko70]

Sounds like the first case was a set piece though I don't know why you throw it there. We use second base to cut off the throw to second, some where near the back of the circle. She's moving toward the third base line so she has the option to go home, third or eat it. Depending on what the runner at third does. It's a set piece to try and get that runner at their napping or over aggressive. Doesn't work but once usually though. (We're 12U)

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[radness]

My comment about this is...
If going to have a defensive play like throw it to shortstop or throw it to 1st.

Even though there is a defensive play on,
the players on the field should be allowed to make a determination of where the proper play is!
Which may not be a pre-designated spot to throw.

Hope this brings up comments and thinking process to help team's
defense perform better!

 

[Cannonball]

When a coach calls out a play, in the best case scenario, the players have practiced that play and understand, as in the first case, that the goal is to not let the runner at 3rd score. If a player didn't do what was coached, you have all kinds of possibilities for trouble. You mentioned the runner. Where was 3B? If that person was in a defensive position to take away a bunt then the throw wouldn't have gotten the runner anyway. If the SS throw to 3B was late, then maybe that runner wasn't as far off as you thought.

In your second scenario, if was a pitchout and snap throw. In order for that to be successful, the catcher has to throw the ball and not delay to read. That was good baserunning by the runner at 1st.

 

[radness]

When a coach calls out a play, in the best case scenario, the players have practiced that play and understand, as in the first case, that the goal is to not let the runner at 3rd score. If a player didn't do what was coached, you have all kinds of possibilities for trouble. You mentioned the runner. Where was 3B? If that person was in a defensive position to take away a bunt then the throw wouldn't have gotten the runner anyway. If the SS throw to 3B was late, then maybe that runner wasn't as far off as you thought.

In your second scenario, if was a pitchout and snap throw. In order for that to be successful, the catcher has to throw the ball and not delay to read. That was good baserunning by the runner at 1st.

? Are you saying throw it to the designated spot that's determined before looking at what the runners are doing?

Pretty obvious to see when a runner at first is taken such a mega lead off that it looks like a delay in the making.

The first and third situation the runner at third came so far off the bag... Third Base was back...
Maybe on purpose because ss did NOT move.
Catcher Easily could have made a play at the runner on third.

In each situation the runners were so far off the base, throwing to a defensive player who had nothing to do with getting an out,
is wrong place to throw.

Much prefer players being able to make smart observations in the moment on the field to observe when and where is the smartest place to throw.

 

[Cannonball]

The look might take away from the intent of the play. What I want is for the runner at 3B to run. I want the SS to cut that ball and throw home. If this is practiced, it should be second nature.

 

[radness]

The look might take away from the intent of the play. What I want is for the runner at 3B to run. I want the SS to cut that ball and throw home. If this is practiced, it should be second nature.

????? So you're waiting to see if the runner is actually going to take off to try and get an out at home? Possibly throw the ball around needlessly?
When catcher can already see mega lead off and look/force them to run back to Third and get the out there?

Which actually after the catcher threw the ball to the shortstop, the runner was able to causally get back to third, then the shortstop threw it to the third baseman at 3rd to try and get that out.
* The initial throw should have went to 3rd.

 

[radness]

The look might take away from the intent of the play. What I want is for the runner at 3B to run. I want the SS to cut that ball and throw home. If this is practiced, it should be second nature.

You want the runner at third to run. But that is not your choice.
Befor that pssibilty of runner running,
~By Looking at the Leadoff,
could have gotten out at third had the throw went directly there.

That is the predicament I am bringing up.
Even though you may be calling a defensive play there needs to be an option in the thinking moment to make the right play to get the out.

 

[Cannonball]

Rad, I don't know. Perhaps I have explained this poorly. I know what has worked in games for 3 decades for me.

 

[GhostCatcher]

? Are you saying throw it to the designated spot that's determined before looking at what the runners are doing?

Pretty obvious to see when a runner at first is taken such a mega lead off that it looks like a delay in the making.

The first and third situation the runner at third came so far off the bag... Third Base was back...
Maybe on purpose because ss did NOT move.
Catcher Easily could have made a play at the runner on third.

In each situation the runners were so far off the base, throwing to a defensive player who had nothing to do with getting an out,
is wrong place to throw.

Much prefer players being able to make smart observations in the moment on the field to observe when and where is the smartest place to throw.

Not trying to put words in your mouth...but reading lots of your posts about catchers (and defenses) being on the attack, you'd rather the defense have awareness and a green light for C to throw to P, 1B, 2B, SS, or 3B at any time to address potential pickoffs/stolen bases?

Your preference for this let's call it "fluid" use of aggressive defense would make it difficult to ever just have defensive plays. Much better to have C and infielders (and their OF backups) ready to strike (ZAP) at a moment's notice, instead of having plays with pitchouts and catchers and fielders throwing to predetermined locations?