Daughter's pitching coach wants to teach the curve before the drop - thoughts?

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Jan 6, 2009
6,591
113
Chehalis, Wa
46 mph drop that starts low and about lands on the plate is pretty effective. I know a kid that does this and girls can't help swinging at it, and missing. The issue is when she misses her spot that 46 mph ball gets hammered.

We won a HS State title with a pitcher who only threw a 50 mph drop ball. The hitters kept getting tighter with their muscled up quick load. Fastpitch spasm hitting.
 
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Jun 20, 2016
46
18
I reserve the curveball for my more advanced pitchers the one's that already have a good understanding of how to correctly throw a riseball. When a parent says they want little Susie to learn a "drop curve" I teach them a two seam fastball. only because its easy for them throw and make break away from a RHB with very little effort and no change to mechanics. The actual curveball itself is thrown almost like a riseball with a slight tilt and thumb up rather then thumb down. However that pitch never gets taught before the riseball otherwise like stated before by Bill it creates wrist issues, basically the wrist will turn in and up and cause a funky bullet type spin which is no good!!!

The order in which I teach pitches is peel drop, change-up and then I start teaching them how to spin the ball backwards and we slowly start learning the riseball once I am happy with their mechanics.
 
Jun 3, 2020
2
1
Hi all,

My daughter is a Aug 09, but is playing up at 14UB this season with the rest of her team (combo of 08/09) She is doing well at 43 ft and has mastered the flip change pretty well. Not perfect and sometimes she releases too late and it rainbows. Most of the time it is pretty deadly, especially now that they moved up to 43. I would say since turning 12 and moving back to 43ft last month, her average speed is around 46mph.

Last lesson her pitching coach wanted to start incorporating spin and practice starting the curve ball mechanics She sees that she tends to cross over a bit and has natural spin to her ball and thinks that is the best pitch for her to learning next. The other pitcher is just starting to learn a drop with a different pitching coach. 3rd pitcher is still mastering the CU with another coach as well.

We are not looking for D1 college or even possibly playing in college right now. The goal is to pitch in high school and continue on with this team at the B level, eventually getting to A level maybe. But she isn't the 24/7 fanatic of softball that some kids are and that is okay. My oldest had D2/3 offers and decided to go to a D1 college for astro engineering and only play club softball. She is extremely happy. So we have been pretty laid back with this one too.

So this 12yr old loves being a P/1B and a power hitter. She is usually in one of those positions so she can be in the batting line-up Anyway, not sure if she has the strength/speed for a curve yet, or if it is even needed, but I don't want to overstep the pitching coach. It seems most coaches teach drop first. Of course my 12yr old was thrilled, so I guess if it motivates her, I let her try it a few weeks and see?

Thoughts on if I am going about this right or wrong?
I've been a head coach for quite a few years. And all ages from 10U to 18 Open and have won many tournaments and even a Midwest Nationals 18 Open title. I've talked to many extremely good coaches and we all say pretty much the same when it comes to pitching. If you can affectively spot your fastball, (right and pitcher) Spin it inside (screw) outside (curve) develop a changeup and change your speed on all pitches. Untouchable. I've started up again with a new team, 10U now moving to 12U. I've taught my 5 pitchers, FB, Circle Change, Screw, Curve. 4 pitchers all different locations. Hard to barrel up something if it's spinning and changing locations and speed all the time.
I agree with a response as to "why not both". My daughter pitched, very successful travel ball and high school pitcher. Lived on the FB Screw and Changeup. But could throw a drop. Spot, Change Speed and Spin. Total Success is available.
 
Jun 20, 2016
46
18
Depends on the level of competition you are facing in all honesty. The better the batters the more pressed you will be trying to sneak a screwball or FB by them IMO. However, I come from the men's game and I do not know of any man that ever threw a straight FB or screwball intentionally because they would get hammered if they did....When I screw up on my drop ball it turns into a FB when a screw up on my riseball it turns into a screwball so its never made sense to me to try and throw that pitch intentionally.

Now I understand the women's game is different to some degree but it shouldn't be when it comes to pitching. What works with one gender will work against another. How do I know this, because quite a few college female hitters hire me every summer to throw to them live. All struggle with a riseball, changeup and a dropball ALL OF THEM! I throw a hard FB they hammer it I throw a flat riseball (screwball) they hammer it but a proper riseball and dropball combo and they are swinging out of their cleats.....

Listen this is what I see out here week in and week out in California, where I have a travel squad and I give lessons, and myself along with other male FP pitchers throw live to my team EVERY WEEK. As well as other top teams here in SoCal, my point is this you can teach your daughter whatever kind of pitch you want her to learn. But at the end of the day if she wants to compete at a higher level then you may want to reconsider what she is working on or not working on.... That my .02
 
Apr 20, 2018
4,581
113
SoCal
.My observation is a flat curveball over the center of the plate goes over the CFs head a lot. Curveball should thrown 3 balls off the plate as a chase pitch or occasionally inside when batter is crowding the plate.
 
Dec 5, 2017
514
63
I just wasn’t sure that the combination of speed and the spin rate that somebody who throws that speed would be able to generate, would lead to effective pitches..
Yeah, I have no idea about other pitches. You’re most like correct.
 
Mar 10, 2020
734
63
Depends on the level of competition you are facing in all honesty.

to throw to them live. All struggle with a riseball, changeup and a dropball ALL OF THEM! I throw a hard FB they hammer it I throw a flat riseball (screwball) they hammer it but a proper riseball and dropball combo and they are swinging out of their cleats.....

Listen this is what I see out here week in and week out in California, where I have a travel squad and I give lessons, and myself along with other male FP pitchers throw live to my team EVERY WEEK. As well as other top teams here in SoCal, my point is this you can teach your daughter whatever kind of pitch you want her to learn. But at the end of the day if she wants to compete at a higher level then you may want to reconsider what she is working on or not working on.... That my .
"Depends on the level of competition you're facing in all honesty."
 

sluggers

Super Moderator
Staff member
May 26, 2008
7,133
113
Dallas, Texas
I've been a head coach for quite a few years. And all ages from 10U to 18 Open and have won many tournaments and even a Midwest Nationals 18 Open title. I've talked to many extremely good coaches and we all say pretty much the same when it comes

Funny... I've been around softball for almost 50 years, coached for 20+ years, and I've never heard this. And, my mentor, a guy who pitched for decades and coached 3 or 4 Olympians never said that either.

If you can affectively spot your fastball, (right and pitcher) Spin it inside (screw) outside (curve) develop a changeup and change your speed on all pitches. Untouchable.

How come Garcia doesn't do this? How come osterman doesn't throw a screw? Where are all these screwballs? And, wouldn't the top male pitchers be throwing these?

Any videos of one of your kids throwing a screw?
 
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Nov 20, 2020
995
93
SW Missouri
Yeah, I have no idea about other pitches. You’re most like correct.

You’d be surprised. DD throws 48mph average and gets a drop. Might touch 50 for a few in game. It’s not a Cat Osterman drop, but it’s enough that it’s effective. IMO, a huge part that’s not talked about is release point and a tight rotation. A release point that aids in a flatter path and tighter rotation causes nice movement even at slower velocity.

Is higher velocity more helpful? Sure. But still can be done in the high 40’s/low 50’s. Problem being, as mentioned above, if release is a touch late and it’s left flat…..oof. Almost better off that it ends up at the shoulders at that point. Take your ball and try again.
 

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