Not sliding

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Jul 22, 2015
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The way you are interpreting it seems to require contact, which is no part of the rule. It also seems to only involve the opportunity for the defense to make the throw, not make the play, which is both the throw and the catch. If it helps, look at it this way, the runner interfered with the 1B chance to catch the ball. Either way, since the ball HIT THE RUNNER, it is a very simple call as long as there is any chance for the ball to have ben caught.
Again, preface by had to be there and see the timing etc. but...I know contact isn't required and I do understand the rule, but I still disagree with your interpretation. When the defense is given every opportunity to make a play and chooses the only path that would result in hitting the runner (who has not left her direct path to the base) I'm not rewarding that. I'd argue the runner puts herself at more liability of interference by diverting to the right or left and guessing wrong. You seem to think that simply being hit by a throw is grounds for interference, which is not true in any rule set.
 

radness

Possibilities & Opportunities!
Dec 13, 2019
7,270
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🤖

If the posts in this umpires forum were only umpires trying to understand the rulebook...rather than how they each think it should be applied...
Could probly find common calls in the rulebook.
But nope...
To each their own.

This is why i say
The umpire is right even when their wrong. Because the next game will be different!
 
May 6, 2015
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Again, preface by had to be there and see the timing etc. but...I know contact isn't required and I do understand the rule, but I still disagree with your interpretation. When the defense is given every opportunity to make a play and chooses the only path that would result in hitting the runner (who has not left her direct path to the base) I'm not rewarding that. I'd argue the runner puts herself at more liability of interference by diverting to the right or left and guessing wrong. You seem to think that simply being hit by a throw is grounds for interference, which is not true in any rule set.


Dd got called for this once in a tournament couple of years ago, ball hit between Ss and 2B, SS field, steps on, DD is only about halfway to second, got called for interference. Taught her in future, if you are out well before slide, no defenderes around you take a knee. should be out of way of throw, and it shows some effort to be out of the way.

bottom line, runner cannot simply stay where they are, base path no longer exists, they have no safe haven, but to get out of way as best they can. and sometimes defense does not really have choice, esp on double play, they have right to try and make play, even if it would be very close, they have no obligation to try and throw around a retired runner. DD is a C, have taught her on bunt, swining or otherwise, if you are in fair territory, and whomever is covereing is on bag and reaching into fair territory, throw to the glove. runner (once halfway) needs to be on foul side of 1B line. plain and simply, D has no obligation if they are not to try and throw around them.
 
Jul 22, 2015
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bottom line, runner cannot simply stay where they are, base path no longer exists, they have no safe haven, but to get out of way as best they can. and sometimes defense does not really have choice, esp on double play, they have right to try and make play, even if it would be very close, they have no obligation to try and throw around a retired runner. DD is a C, have taught her on bunt, swining or otherwise, if you are in fair territory, and whomever is covereing is on bag and reaching into fair territory, throw to the glove. runner (once halfway) needs to be on foul side of 1B line. plain and simply, D has no obligation if they are not to try and throw around them.
If this was the case why would a SS or 2B ever try to actually throw to 1B? Just hit the runner regardless and you have an out. The defense does not have to use the exact path the runner is in to make the play. In fact, it makes no real sense to when they clearly have time to create just a slight angle for a play. No middle infielder is taught to stay exactly in the path of the runner to make the play.

The bunt play you mentioned with the running lane to 1B is a completely unrelated rule.
 
May 6, 2015
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If this was the case why would a SS or 2B ever try to actually throw to 1B? Just hit the runner regardless and you have an out. The defense does not have to use the exact path the runner is in to make the play. In fact, it makes no real sense to when they clearly have time to create just a slight angle for a play. No middle infielder is taught to stay exactly in the path of the runner to make the play.

no one is saying, if the runner was not in the way of the throw, they can just bean the runner and get an out. but they have no obligation to avoid them if they are in the way. retired runner has to remove themselves (now if they are sliding into the bag fraction of a second after the forceout, of course that is not interference) if possible.

and what if they dont have the time, as is often the case on a DP attempt?
 
Nov 4, 2015
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If this was the case why would a SS or 2B ever try to actually throw to 1B? Just hit the runner regardless and you have an out. The defense does not have to use the exact path the runner is in to make the play. In fact, it makes no real sense to when they clearly have time to create just a slight angle for a play. No middle infielder is taught to stay exactly in the path of the runner to make the play.

The bunt play you mentioned with the running lane to 1B is a completely unrelated rule.

Teach the middle infielders to throw it down the line, directly to first. Throw side armed if possible. This is not about trying to hit the runner, but a good runner is trying to slide hard into the defensive player. Defense protects itself by throwing down the line. Runner must get out of the way of the throw just as they must avoid contact with a defensive player trying to field a ball.
 
Jul 22, 2015
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no one is saying, if the runner was not in the way of the throw, they can just bean the runner and get an out. but they have no obligation to avoid them if they are in the way. retired runner has to remove themselves (now if they are sliding into the bag fraction of a second after the forceout, of course that is not interference) if possible.

and what if they dont have the time, as is often the case on a DP attempt?
In the play described they DO have time, and almost always would if the runner is not anywhere near 2B as described. It would be a completely different situation if the runner was closer and didn't slide in order to intentionally remain in the way of an attempted throw.
 
Jul 22, 2015
851
93
Teach the middle infielders to throw it down the line, directly to first. Throw side armed if possible. This is not about trying to hit the runner, but a good runner is trying to slide hard into the defensive player. Defense protects itself by throwing down the line. Runner must get out of the way of the throw just as they must avoid contact with a defensive player trying to field a ball.
Very different situation than what is described though.
 
Feb 13, 2021
880
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MI
no one is saying, if the runner was not in the way of the throw, they can just bean the runner and get an out. but they have no obligation to avoid them if they are in the way. retired runner has to remove themselves (now if they are sliding into the bag fraction of a second after the forceout, of course that is not interference) if possible.

and what if they dont have the time, as is often the case on a DP attempt?


bmakj has the right idea. The responsibility to avoid contact between the runner and the fielder/throw is on the runner. This is by rule. Does the throw need to be within the realm of getting a second out? yes. Compare it to RLI in this aspect; if there is no chance of getting the out, then there was nothing to interfere with.

Also, if there is so little time/space between when the runner is out (not called out, but out by action) and the time she is hit with the ball then you likely have incidental contact and 'nothing', this is the 'have to be there aspect of the play. But, if the runner is halfway between the bases, she can easily see that the SS is turning the front end of the DP, she knows she will be out bar some unusual occurrence, she can see the SS moving from her (the runner's) left to right. The runner has ample time to recognize and react that she should either get down or move to her left either of which takes her out of the likely path of a throw to 1B.
 

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