Scoring an error

[wheresmycar]

I can't give an error for a mental error.

I'd say, failing to move is a physical error.

In comments after Rule 10.12(a)(1) (baseball)says “…It is not necessary that the fielder touch the ball to be charged with an error. … For example, the official scorer shall charge an infielder with an error when a ground ball passes to either side of such infielder if, in the official scorer’s judgement, a fielder at that position making ordinary effort would have fielded such ground ball and retired a runner.”

So, in your judgement, if the 2nd baseman should have fielded the ball with ordinary effort, an error could be charged.

 

[Nimrod]

DD got charged with an error in one game by her coaches while playing RF on a hit on the line that she didn't catch - I don't even think it touched her glove - she just couldn't get there fast enough. Never understand that scoring. But their scoring always confuses me. We had a girl last nite that hit a dinky pop up at second basemen who couldn't catch it but fielded it and threw it the 2 ft to 1B where the 1B dropped it and still awarded the batter a hit.

On the hit to right, if she isn't fast enough to get there, then it's a hit, although errors don't require that a ball hit the fielder's glove. On the other play, if the first baseman didn't have time to react to a sudden throw or flip, it's possible it would be ruled a hit. Also, whether a ball is a line drive or dinky popup doesn't matter. You might know all that, but just my 2 cents.

 

[MightyMO]

On the hit to right, if she isn't fast enough to get there, then it's a hit, although errors don't require that a ball hit the fielder's glove. On the other play, if the first baseman didn't have time to react to a sudden throw or flip, it's possible it would be ruled a hit. Also, whether a ball is a line drop or dinky popup doesn't matter. You might know all that, but just my 2 cents.

In the case of the hit to right, I actually agreed with the other scorekeeper. The RF had time and the ability to get there. She just miss played it when she arrived.

 

[MightyMO]

I'd say, failing to move is a physical error.

In comments after Rule 10.12(a)(1) (baseball)says “…It is not necessary that the fielder touch the ball to be charged with an error. … For example, the official scorer shall charge an infielder with an error when a ground ball passes to either side of such infielder if, in the official scorer’s judgement, a fielder at that position making ordinary effort would have fielded such ground ball and retired a runner.”

So, in your judgement, if the 2nd baseman should have fielded the ball with ordinary effort, an error could be charged.

While I know this is the case, it has always bothered me to assign an error in this case. Simply because the pitcher could have made the play and the second baseman probably assumed she was going to. But at the same time, the pitcher realized it was a tough play for her and she was approaching the second baseman's territory. I could have assigned either the error but chose to credit the hit.

For full transparency, my DD is the pitcher so it would have helped her stats for me to charge the error but I didn't feel it appropriate.

Not to mention, it's hard to judge "ordinary effort" in high school games. I charge a decent amount of errors but could charge a lot more if I wanted to.

 

[osagedr]

But that's what the rules of scoring require that you do.

Luckily for me abandoning the rules of scoring in favour of the rules of common sense is not punishable by...anything.

 

[Strike2]

I saw a HS game where the 1B got rung up for four errors in one game. No...not my kid! One was a throwing error that was legit, and another a failure to catch a throw that was borderline. However, there were two throws low and away that would have been very nice picks had she made them that she got rung up for. Poor kid was on the bench for the rest of the season.

 

[Nimrod]

Luckily for me abandoning the rules of scoring in favour of the rules of common sense is not punishable by...anything.

Most of the time, you're probably right. Depends on your reason for scoring, IMO.

If you score games for the purpose of helping yourself or the coaching staff assess the team, then I say score however you feel is best to accomplish that goal. Travel teams are independent teams not beholding to anyone else, so I say let them score however they want.

Following the rules of scoring is more important when comparing a group of teams. If you have a league or conference of teams (ig, NCAA, MLB, high school conference, etc.), then all scorekeepers need to follow the same rules or the stats lose meaning.

 

[osagedr]

I saw a HS game where the 1B got rung up for four errors in one game. No...not my kid! One was a throwing error that was legit, and another a failure to catch a throw that was borderline. However, there were two throws low and away that would have been very nice picks had she made them that she got rung up for. Poor kid was on the bench for the rest of the season.

Ugh, that sucks. If it's a throw that takes more than routine effort to catch, it's on the thrower, not 1B.

 

[CoachJD]

OK, so, there is a lot of bad or misleading information in this thread. Hopefully I can clarify some things. (I'm heavily relying on the official baseball rules here, but I haven't seen anything contradictory in any softball rule sets).

Let's start with some of the easier stuff:

DD2 hit a screamer right into 3B glove who promptly dropped the ball. Was really painful to give her a ROE, especially since she's been in a batting slump.

If she hit a screamer, it might be a hit. It doesn't necessarily matter that it was right into the glove. Age/level of play should factor in here. And what happened after the ball dropped? Bad throw? No throw? Could go either way, but that's not necessarily ROE.

Later in the game there was a fly ball hit to right field. The RF got to it but ran by and stuck her glove out instead of getting under it. It bounced by her to the fence. This time the scorekeeper looked at me and said "I'm giving her an error. I don't care what you say."

This sounds like an error, though I'd have to see it. This is where the "doesn't have to touch the glove" part could come into play. But if I'm scoring, I'm taking into account how hard the ball was hit, how far the RF had to run, etc. Simply getting there does not necessarily mean it was an error, but it sounds like it was a play that should've been made. Again, age/level matters here. At 10u, you really should only be calling them errors if it's in and out of the glove because anything else goes beyond ordinary effort.

I'd say, failing to move is a physical error.

It's not. At least not in the situation you're talking about (9.12(a)(3) suggests that a 1B who is near first and just chooses to not step on the base after catching the ball could be charged an error, for example).

In comments after Rule 10.12(a)(1) (baseball)says “…It is not necessary that the fielder touch the ball to be charged with an error. … For example, the official scorer shall charge an infielder with an error when a ground ball passes to either side of such infielder if, in the official scorer’s judgement, a fielder at that position making ordinary effort would have fielded such ground ball and retired a runner.”

So, in your judgement, if the 2nd baseman should have fielded the ball with ordinary effort, an error could be charged.

Ah, but you left out the rest of the rule (which is actually Rule 9.12 now). You omitted the part of the comment that clearly says a misjudgment is not an error. A 2B not moving for a pop up is a misjudgment.

If 2nd held ball, because nobody to throw to at 1B, it's an E3.

No, it's not. It's an infield hit because of the comment you quoted in your other post. The first baseman not covering is a mental mistake (forgetting, covering some other spot, etc.), and the comment says:

The Official Scorer shall not score mental mistakes or misjudgments as errors unless a specific rule prescribes otherwise. A fielder’s mental mistake that leads to a physical misplay—such as throwing the ball into the stands or rolling the ball to the pitcher’s mound, mistakenly believing there to be three outs, and thereby allowing a runner or runners to advance—shall not be considered a mental mistake for purposes of this rule and the Official Scorer shall charge a fielder committing such a mistake with an error.

If the 2B holds the ball, there is no "physical misplay," and so it is not an error as much as you might want it to be one.

And now, the OP's question:

Was scoring a game recently - ball was hit pretty hard right near the 2nd base bag. Our 2B made a really great stop and went to throw to 1st but our 1B had run away from 1B in order to cover the circle I think? Because she wasn't aware the 2B had gotten to the ball. So 2B throws over 1st - runner gets to 2nd. In an ideal world - our RF would have come to cover the throw but I'm not sure if she would have gotten there fast enough anyway.

Who should get the error - I scored it on our 1B but should 2B not have thrown it? I feel like I've seen scenarios where if the C does a throw down and no one is covering the base - they still get charged with the error.

Starting at the end: If there is a stolen base attempt and the C throws and nobody covers, it's no error at all if the runner stays at second. But what if the runner ends up at third? Well, let's look at Rule 9.12(a)(8), which says:

The Official Scorer shall charge an error against any fielder whose failure to stop, or try to stop, an accurately thrown ball permits a runner to advance, so long as there was occasion for the throw. If such throw was made to second base, the Official Scorer shall determine whether it was the duty of the second baseman or the shortstop to stop the ball and shall charge an error to the negligent fielder.

So, by rule, the catcher should not get charged with the error here. Either the second baseman or shortstop should. And, for what it's worth, the International Softball Federation has a similarly worded rule, which says errors are recorded "for the fielder, if a runner advances a base, because of his failure to stop, or try to stop, a ball accurately thrown to a base, providing there was occasion for the throw. When more than one player could receive the throw, the scorer must determine which player gets the error."

Which leads to this: For the OP's play, if the runner would have been out at first, the error should be on the first baseman. If not, it's a single and an E4; the error is assigned because she got to second.

One final thing on scorekeeping: It's not the scorekeeper's job to score the game as he/she imagines it might have gone if not for A, B, C, and D happening or not happening. You're not writing a narrative. You're recording what happened and, in some cases, you must use judgment, but judgment doesn't include extrapolating a bunch of events to justify what you want the play to be. It's not your job to "punish" fielders who didn't do something you think they should have done. It's not your job to "reward" players (I am probably guilty of awarding a questionable hit or two to our weaker players from time to time). Sometimes, the judgment is difficult to make, but that's all it's meant to be: your best judgment.

 

[wheresmycar]

Ah, but you left out the rest of the rule (which is actually Rule 9.12 now). You omitted the part of the comment that clearly says a misjudgment is not an error. A 2B not moving for a pop up is a misjudgment.

It is no more a "misjudgment" than a ground ball that passes to either side of the same infielder. Maybe you read the exception as only applying to ground balls. I read it as it's the score keepers judgement to determine if the play could have been made with ordinary effort.