Who said an arm bar is bad?

[julray]

The only issue is that those two swings are a few years apart. If I remember correctly her pro ball swing is/was somewhat different than her college swing.

Trout .. high and low, same year, 2019

 

[_MIA_]

Trout .. high and low, same year, 2019

View attachment 19352 View attachment 19353

I wasn't necessarily disagreeing with the message only your way of conveying it with Romero.

 

[julray]

I wasn't necessarily disagreeing with the message only your way of conveying it with Romero.

It's all good and a fair point on your part. Hitters swings do change. Just wanted to provide something with a little more credibility from a comparison point of view.

 

[Quasimodo]

what you don’t seem to get is maybe she was expecting something? Looking high or low? Nobody’s BSing you. You are confused.

I am not directing this at Pattar or julray.

What is obvious here in all your videos and photos, in all swings, is that shoulder tilt or angle is adjusted to take the bat-head to the ball on the proper plane. The hips adjust to create balance, so so might say that if they have a modicum of athleticism, their body adjusts automatically. Some players adjust the height of the knees, I did! But what is not required for an athlete is a 36 volume on the semantics of the swing. Otherwise you would have a 36 volume set for each team.

And why do you guys use baseball examples most of the time, some all the time? There are basics you could list on your 10 digits, known as fundamentals, you can teach the kids and leave off the layers of your virtuous views of mechanics of this or that. Because honestly, none of our kids will be Mike Trout or likely Sierra Romero! But you can get them as close as you can as long as you; don't burn them out, confuse them, or put mechanical burdens on them they are not capable of.

And in Trout's photos he is compressing, getting lower, probably because he is anticipating that pitch to be lower than the pitch that was up a little. Seems like a normal reaction, not a calculation! On slower more junk-ball pitchers, I at times hit with my back knee almost touching the ground. It has to be learned and controlled, but it worked. The longest reach a batter has is on a pitch low and outside. That is in particular why you see a lot of arm-barred swings on that particular pitch, in an effort to reach it, especially if batters are pull-happy

 

[_MIA_]

And why do you guys use baseball examples most of the time, some all the time?

Why does it matter unless you think women and men swing differently..

 

[Work=wins]

What is obvious here and on all swings is shoulder tilt or angle is adjusted to take the bat-head yo the ball on the proper plane. The hips adjust to create balance, so so might say that if they have a modicum of athleticism, their body adjusts automatically. Some players adjust the height of the knees, I did! But what is not required for an athlete is a 36 volume on the symantics of the swing. Otherwise you would have a 36 volume set for each team.

And why do you guys use baseball examples most of the time, some all the time? There are basics you could list on your 10 didgets, known as fundamentals, you can teach the kids and leave off the layers of your virtuous views of mechanics of this or that. Because honestly, none of our kids will be Mike Trout or likely Sierra Romero!

sure lateral tilt is present. But we were speaking of beforehand into foot plant. How one adjusts to get on plane to the pitch initially. Some think it’s with the hands/arms and others think it’s with forward bend. We all agree lateral tilt is a great adjuster after foot down.

when speaking of how the ‘best’ get it done, we should probably use the ‘best’ right? Wouldn’t feel right using my DD to explain how the best adjust right?

As far as adjusting I do believe the arms and legs and hands do most of it, along with lateral tilt along with some hip flexion and some hip slide at times.

why do I need a list of fundamentals when talking about 1 specific subject?

I do like the body adjusting automatically. Each player adjusts differently, I think I said as much earlier.

edit: my dd uses a ‘longer’ arm when adjusting quite often. Would personally like if she didn’t but it’s not my style it’s hers. I just try to get her to a position so she can adjust. From there it’s instincts mostly. I have given her side bend drills and hip flexion drills and let her gravitate to what she does best. I always say ‘try this.. if you like it, use it, if not discard’.

 

[julray]

I am not directing this at Pattar or julray.

What is obvious here in all your videos and photos, in all swings, is that shoulder tilt or angle is adjusted to take the bat-head to the ball on the proper plane.

Yes that is obvious and the point I am making, shoulder tilt does adjust.. aka posture, to get the barrel on plane, to provide space for the hands to work. But shoulders tilt and chest gets over the ball because what happens at the hips... and of course the legs are involved in creating posture. However my point is not about what creates posture, its about the fact posture changes depending on pitch location.

The hips adjust to create balance, so so might say that if they have a modicum of athleticism, their body adjusts automatically.

We see it on here all the time, young hitters (sometimes pros like JD Martinez's old swing) who have no posture, or don't understand how to get to a ball by adjusting posture. They either end up swinging down on a low pitch.. steep angle or DBSF. Can't believe you haven't seen this before in all your years of coaching? Or maybe its been a while. You coach a national team right?... most of these hitters already know how to hit by the time you see them.

Some players adjust the height of the knees, I did!

Legs are involved in creating/adjusting posture. Most of the time when a person bends at the knees they also adjust at the hips. Again not interested in discussing what muscles are used to create posture

And why do you guys use baseball examples most of the time, some all the time?

There's a much larger pool of baseball swings. But I try to use fastpitch examples for the most part.. Romero in this case.

There are basics you could list on your 10 digits, known as fundamentals, you can teach the kids and leave off the layers of your virtuous views of mechanics of this or that. Because honestly, none of our kids will be Mike Trout or likely Sierra Romero! But you can get them as close as you can as long as you; don't burn them out, confuse them, or put mechanical burdens on them they are not capable of.

Posture is a very basic and fundamental part of the swing. A lot of simple drills out there to help kids understand posture. I've seen you discuss much more advanced topics than posture on here. If you don't understand how to create and maintain posture, good luck.

And in Trout's photos he is compressing, getting lower, probably because he is anticipating that pitch to be lower than the pitch that was up a little.

Yes, he is adjusting posture to get to those pitches. FTR, he starts with the same hip hinge angle in both swings, he adjusts posture just before/at/ and a little after heel plant to get to those pitches

Seems like a normal reaction, not a calculation!

If it was normal, we wouldn't have to teach it. Many kids do not react this way. I shouldn't say just kids, it happens at all levels.

On slower more junk-ball pitchers, I at times hit with my back knee almost touching the ground. It has to be learned and controlled, but it worked. The longest reach a batter has is on a pitch low and outside. That is in particular why you see a lot of arm-barred swings on that particular pitch, in an effort to reach it, especially if batters are pull-happy

Love to see a sample of you doing this

Hitters wouldn't have to arm bar as much on an outside pitch if they created and maintained posture. However I get what you are saying, more arm bars do occur when a pitch in low and away, I'm just saying great posture can help a hitter cover the plate more.

 

[Work=wins]

He’s adjusting with his hip flexion at foot down. Not his spine angle beforehand. That’s set at stride. That only changes on high pitches at foot down. Nothing else. The phrase ‘stay tall’ means something in hitting.



Hip flexion

 

[julray]

Just prior to foot down, @ foot down, and slightly after is what I said. Posture adjusts to pitch location. Hip flexion is very much involved in posture change. Glad we cleared that up. Seems like you still want to discuss, but you haven't answered my question yet.

 

[Quasimodo]

Yes that is obvious and the point I am making, shoulder tilt does adjust.. aka posture, to get the barrel on plane, to provide space for the hands to work. But shoulders tilt and chest gets over the ball because what happens at the hips... and of course the legs are involved in creating posture. However my point is not about what creates posture, its about the fact posture changes depending on pitch location.


We see it on here all the time, young hitters (sometimes pros like JD Martinez's old swing) who have no posture, or don't understand how to get to a ball by adjusting posture. They either end up swinging down on a low pitch.. steep angle or DBSF. Can't believe you haven't seen this before in all your years of coaching? Or maybe its been a while. You coach a national team right?... most of these hitters already know how to hit by the time you see them.


Legs are involved in creating/adjusting posture. Most of the time when a person bends at the knees they also adjust at the hips. Again not interested in discussing what muscles are used to create posture


There's a much larger pool of baseball swings. But I try to use fastpitch examples for the most part.. Romero in this case.


Posture is a very basic and fundamental part of the swing. A lot of simple drills out there to help kids understand posture. I've seen you discuss much more advanced topics than posture on here. If you don't understand how to create and maintain posture, good luck.


Yes, he is adjusting posture to get to those pitches. FTR, he starts with the same hip hinge angle in both swings, he adjusts posture just before/at/ and a little after heel plant to get to those pitches


If it was normal, we wouldn't have to teach it. Many kids do not react this way. I shouldn't say just kids, it happens at all levels.


Love to see a sample of you doing this

Hitters wouldn't have to arm bar as much on an outside pitch if they created and maintained posture. However I get what you are saying, more arm bars do occur when a pitch in low and away, I'm just saying great posture can help a hitter cover the plate more.

I pretty much agree with almost all you pose. Though not directed at you I was just emphasizing that teaching grip, posture, load, stride, starting with the backside, simultaneous shoulder tilt, proper bat path short to the ball (deep in the zone) long through the ball, extension, keeping the hands inside the ball, proper hitting outside pitches (or where the ball is pitched) is just about enough. That is 10. Maybe I need a toe?

I inherit girls with pathetic mechanics. One of the more common is dropping the front elbow as soon as the back elbow gets to slot. I had a high school team at the Nation HS championships with 100% doing that. I gave them a 2 hour lesson that evening. They got "no-hit" two straight games by weak teams. The next 4 days they ended up winning 50% of their games just over that one issue. Some don't know how to spot it.

I am 69, almost 70. I do not swing much any more. I will find an example. Here is Rizzo, Andrelton Simmons, Donaldson, Beltre all going down on the back knee. Belt re did it most. All were HRs. In softball Michele Smith was a master of it. The big difference for me was I tried to stabilize my knee height to the pitch height. At times my back knee would stabilize at 10 inches height, another time 6 inches.