Bullet Spin

[radness]

@Gambler Bob and @RADcatcher , Rachel Garcia doesn't know how to pitch? Dallas Escobedo throws the same rise.








The physics is pretty simple--it is the same as a boat rudder. Throw the ball so there are seams on the bottom 1/2 of the ball "into the wind" but no seams on the top 1/2 of the ball. The air is deflected by the seams on the bottom 1/2 of the ball downward, causing the ball to move up.

Garcia throws a bullet spin riseball. The NCAA conveniently has black logos on the ball near the spin axis.

It is very clear that the black label is spinning around an axis.



Here is Garcia throwing a fastball up in the zone that gets tatooed. Notice the spin axis in this pitch is in the black logo. (She was trying to throw a high inside pitch but caught too much of the plate.)



You can get see the the second pitch better at the 2:15:00 mark of this video.

Pardon? Never said it isnt or shouldnt be thrown.
Commented catching a pitcher who threw it successfully.
And about the usefulness of the spin on it deception.

 

[ArmWhip]

Right after starting this thread I remembered having watched Giselle Juarez's off speed curve and being surprised that it was so effective because it had a lot of bullet spin. I looked back through the games I had on tape and found a 2019 CWS championship game between Oklahoma and UCLA. There were some clear slo-mo replays of Juarez's off speed curve and sure enough the spin axis is tipped about half way between a curve and a bullet spin pitch.

 

[625ender]

All pitches have a bullet spin. It depends on where that dot is pointing. If that dot is pointing straight at the catcher its coming straight. Very common in FP. Its hard to get up on the ball and make it work. Look at Verlanders curve. See the dot at 5 o'clock.

Look at the dot orientation in David's slider.

 

[Gambler Bob]

@Gambler Bob and @RADcatcher , Rachel Garcia doesn't know how to pitch? Dallas Escobedo throws the same rise.

No, I do not think that Garcia does not know how to pitch.

I understand that it is very difficult to get true 6-12 spin on a riseball consistently.

My daughter does not throw a riseball. When i was talking about bullet spin I was referring to dropballs, fastballs, drop curves etc. I am not a professional pitching instructor, I just sit on a bucket and catch for my daughter. In my experience, her ball does not move, or moves much less when she throws a ball with bullet spin.

 

[Quasimodo]

How old? Trying to or no?

Caught for a pitcher name
Cindy Bird
We called her "mama bird"
Shew threw a hard bullet spin.
Used it as an inside pitch.
Almost never came up in the zone.
Direct and to the point.
Comming at you!
*She threw it hard, noticeably.

I have sat behind home plate and up close on Yukiko Ueno's games many times. Most of her pitches have less than perfect spins. In truth most intentional or not are bullet spins. But she throws up to 75. She has very good command of the strike-zone. Less movement than most. But she is also clever. I have seen her curveball with bullet-spin. It doesn't really move, but somehow she gets by with guile. The curve-ball she throws in this .gif doesn't move, but I can not see the spin clearly. I can only say that a lot of these pitches have bullet-spin. Is that great. Well some of my pitchers throw harder with some IR in their release and end up with some bullet spin. I teach them to throw it 90% of the time at the knees. And if someone is to tell me that no one throws a fastball, the last pitch in Michele Smith's career was an outside fastball, called strike-3. Is it the ideal? I don't think so, but some girls can get away with it if located properly and not over-used.

 

[Quasimodo]

@Gambler Bob and @RADcatcher , Rachel Garcia doesn't know how to pitch? Dallas Escobedo throws the same rise.

The physics is pretty simple--it is the same as a boat rudder. Throw the ball so there are seams on the bottom 1/2 of the ball "into the wind" but no seams on the top 1/2 of the ball. The air is deflected by the seams on the bottom 1/2 of the ball downward, causing the ball to move up.

Garcia throws a bullet spin riseball. The NCAA conveniently has black logos on the ball near the spin axis.

It is very clear that the black label is spinning around an axis.



Here is Garcia throwing a fastball up in the zone that gets tatooed. Notice the spin axis in this pitch is in the black logo. (She was trying to throw a high inside pitch but caught too much of the plate.)



You can get see the the second pitch better at the 2:15:00 mark of this video.

I believe that Rachel and Dallas Escobedo both throw a rise-ball with an unconventional release. It is the reason why Escobedo had a great freshman and senior year, and less than stellar years between. Perhaps it is why Rachel gets tagged for HR rather often on her rise-ball as well. They both ended up palm down at release. Sluggers, I just saw on the next page you mentioned this about Rachel and Dallas. The point belongs to you!

 

[radness]

As for pitcher release and hitting~
*Absolutely do think being able to recognize pitchers mechanics can contribute to being a better hitter.
*Its the first visual indicator!
Possibly also the best disguise for pitchers who look more consistant on variety of pitches. Change up in specific!

*Then recognizing spin.
(however can be deceptive)

The details in these 2 points are
Strong reasons i continue
ENCOURAGING
Live pitching at practice!

*Atleast go over pitching mechanics while developing batters to get an understanding what to look for.

 

[coach james]

I watch a lot of baseball. I can't seem to help myself, I watch my NY Mets blow games on a regular basis. One thing sticks out and puzzles me, bullet spin. The slider is a big part of a baseball pitcher's arsenal and it is basically bullet spin. The slider breaks late, down and away to a pitcher's glove side. How does bullet spin break? I did some research and found an explanation that explains the break and why it occurs 'late'.
Everyone knows what bullet spin is: the spin axis is horizontal and pointed in the direction that the ball travels, the magnus force is distributed evenly around the ball thus there is no break. However as the ball slows down it's trajectory changes significantly in a downward direction, yet the spin axis remains horizontal. As the ball 'sinks' the air flow changes, there is more contact with the 'bottom' of the ball and this generates enough magnus force to cause the ball to break. Imagine throwing a football where the spin axis remains horizontal for the whole distance, as the ball loses speed and starts to fall it will drift to the left (for a right hander).
How does this apply to softball? If you want a curveball with a lot of late break don't throw it with perfect horizontal spin, you need to tip the axis forward a little so that as it loses speed the spin will line up with the change in air flow and there will be more magnus force. Half bullet, half curve, or something close to that should do it.

 

[coach james]

I am going to bet that you are seeing yaw, and not actually bullet

 

[ArmWhip]

Yaw? If that's a name for some type of spin it must be a local thing.