Scenario Rule-Baseball and/or softball

[flash277]

Well, the project wasn’t a failure, but the smoke preceding the flames wouldn’t have happened had she ... oh, you mean the play ...

I posted it somewhere above (I think).

If the ball wasn’t catchable with ordinary effort, it sounded like we had the batter-runner out on the force and the runner still safe at first base.

I think the scenario I pictured is, say a runner on 1st, a ground ball is hit to the 1B, the runner stays on first and doesn't move, if the 1B tags the runner STANDING on first base, is she out, since she was forced to leave the base, or is she forced off the base when it becomes occupied by the batter/runner?

 

[The Man In Blue]

Correct — a base is not always an automatic safe haven. As soon as the ball in play (meaning once a fly out is no longer possible), a forced runner loses that base (until the force is removed). Even if they are on it.

 

[jackfrost]

For the umpirer. Is there is distinction between intentionally dropping a ball and simply just letting it drop?

At least in USA (ASA) Softball there was a distinction made in the April 2010 rules clarifications: Here is what they posted on their website (Its probably still there)

“The ball cannot be intentionally dropped unless the fielder has actually caught it and then drops it. Merely guiding the ball to the ground is not an intentionally dropped ball.” The purpose of the rule is to prevent a defensive player from gaining an advantage for a possible double play. To have an “intentionally dropped” ball the ball must be caught and then dropped. It is always umpire judgment as to whether the fielder caught the ball and then dropped it.

 

[The Man In Blue]

Oof ... I really disagree with that interpretation. You can intentionally let a ball drop without ever touching it.

 

[jackfrost]

Oof ... I really disagree with that interpretation. You can intentionally let a ball drop without ever touching it.

just posting directly from the USA website. their words

 

[The Man In Blue]

Sorry @jackfrost — was aiming that at USA Softball, not you!

 

[umpwally]

Not in USA softball. guiding the ball to the ground or just letting it drop is not intentionally dropping the ball. It has to actually be caught first and then dropped. No need to look at plays and clarifications on their website, just look at rule supplement #30 in the rule book. It’s quite clear

 

[jackfrost]

Not in USA softball. guiding the ball to the ground or just letting it drop is not intentionally dropping the ball. It has to actually be caught first and then dropped. No need to look at plays and clarifications on their website, just look at rule supplement #30 in the rule book. It’s quite clear

Yep, you are right. I went back to 2001 rule book and its been the same all along.

 

[The Man In Blue]

I didn’t say that it didn’t say that. I said I don’t agree with it and it is a stupid interpretation in direct conflict with common sense and the same play when an infield fly is in effect.

Can anybody explain to me what is “guiding the ball to the ground”?

 

[umpwally]

Basically just letting it drop. The point to get from the rule supplement is that in order for a ball to be considered intentionally dropped it has be considered legally caught first. Also don’t forget that an infield fly supersedes an intentionally dropped ball