Laminar Express

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Jun 8, 2016
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Are you saying that the seam orientation on the third base side effectively creates and air foil so the pressure differential similar to the lift on an airplane wing moves the ball toward third base? The airflow diagram on Figure 3 vaguely looks like this.
More or less. The seam orientation for both third and first base sides (for a range of gyro axes) creates a pressure distribution which moves the ball to the third base side. In Figure 2 you can see the separation point on third base side, while it moves around, on average is more towards the second base side than the (averaged) separation point on the first base side of the ball. The resulting pressure distribution because of this will provide a force in the third base direction.

There is nothing special about an airfoil design other than the shape is such that one tries to provide maximum lift and minimum drag for the flows the airplane is designed to encounter (airfoils for fighter jets will be different than passenger jets, etc). Anything put in a flow will have a resulting set of forces.
 
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Sep 19, 2018
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So what is the practical application, or more specifically, new application here? At the end he writes "If you scuff the smooth spot, does it still work? (it should if I am right) ". People have been scuffling the ball for a long time. Just the same Bruce Sutter used to rub the ball on one side trying to create an even smoother side making the other side relatively more 'scuffled'.
 
Jun 8, 2016
16,118
113
So what is the practical application, or more specifically, new application here? At the end he writes "If you scuff the smooth spot, does it still work? (it should if I am right) ". People have been scuffling the ball for a long time. Just the same Bruce Sutter used to rub the ball on one side trying to create an even smoother side making the other side relatively more 'scuffled'.
The scuffing the ball example was him trying to say that changing the point of transition to turbulence (which is what you are trying to do when you scuff a ball) would have little effect and his theory would still pan out, e.g. the results he presents would be the same with or without scuffing..or at least that is how I took it. I doubt they would be the same but if his theory is correct then the effect would be small in comparison to changing the gyro axes.
 
Mar 20, 2015
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One thing to consider is that the spin axis for the Bartolo Colon / Cory Kluber 2 seam fast ball is pointing towards the third base side of the plate and the ball moves that way with amazing amount of break that you just don't see in softball. For RH softball pitcher with an IR fast ball the axis is pointing to the left side of the plate. This would mean the ball would move towards first base. I think for softball you will never get nearly as much movement as baseball because the ball is heavier and the distance is shorter. Also the leading edge of the ball is spinning down versus up in baseball but I don't think that should matter.
 
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Jun 8, 2016
16,118
113
So what is the practical application, or more specifically, new application here? At the end he writes "If you scuff the smooth spot, does it still work? (it should if I am right) ". People have been scuffling the ball for a long time. Just the same Bruce Sutter used to rub the ball on one side trying to create an even smoother side making the other side relatively more 'scuffled'.
With regards to practical application, there is a range of gyro spin axes where you get an effect. Below or above this range the effect due to the physics he is mentioning, is negligible. Just for reference, I believe a pure bullet spin (counterclockwise) would be -90 degrees in that graph if I have deciphered his sign convention correctly.
 
Jun 8, 2016
16,118
113
One thing to consider is that the spin axis for the Bartolo Colon / Cory Kluber 2 seam fast ball is pointing towards the third base side of the plate
For pure, e.g. no 12 to 6 rotation, counterclockwise spin the actual spin axis is pointing towards second base. Take your right hand and curl your fingers in the direction of rotation. The spin axis direction is the direction in which your thumb is pointing.
 
Mar 20, 2015
174
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For pure, e.g. no 12 to 6 rotation, counterclockwise spin the actual spin axis is pointing towards second base. Take your right hand and curl your fingers in the direction of rotation. The spin axis direction is the direction in which your thumb is pointing.
You lost me there. If you look at Figure 1 the spin axis is pointing to the right of home plate from the pitchers perspective. If it was perfect bullet it would be pointing directly at home plate.
 
Jun 8, 2016
16,118
113
You lost me there. If you look at Figure 1 the spin axis is pointing to the right of home plate from the pitchers perspective. If it was perfect bullet it would be pointing directly at home plate.
I know nothing about softball pitching so I think I screwed up the clockwise/counterclockwise thing with pure bullet spin 🤷‍♂️ ..sorry. Pure bullet is clockwise (as viewed from behind the pitcher) ? The axis in Figure 1 is just a line, there is no direction associated with it. If pure bullet is clockwise that line in the Fig. 1 would look like this (with me making it an arrow so it actually has a direction associated with it)

<----------------------------

e.g. you were correct when you said pure bullet would be point towards home.

The spin axes actually needs to be drawn in a 3D space for thrown balls. What he is showing there is just the projection of that 3D vector onto a 2D plane.
 
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May 15, 2008
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Cape Cod Mass.
There is still a lot of conjecture about the exact cause of the force that makes the ball break. There are more posts in the thread that I linked to that update the author's thinking. Turbulent air moves faster laminar flow air so is it Magnus Effect? The author thinks it is due to the differences in the wake on each side of ball that. The wake is affected by the seams.

Here is a link to Trevor Bauer, who was one of the first MLB pitchers to talk about the Laminar Express. He is explaining the seam placement and how it relates to ball rotation to get max break on his pitch. Look closely at what he is describing and keep in mind that this is his sinker, with substantial horizontal break, yet the pitch has backspin along with 'gyro'. Also, just how much bullet (gyro) spin does this pitch have?

 

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