Importance of lead shoulder speed.

[dominik]

Btw i think keeping the lead shoulder in isn't a bad swing thought.

Eventually it needs to turn but the more the upper body is delayed the faster you can turn. What is bad is opening the lead shoulder well before footplant. If you keep the front shoulder in and open the hips you create a lot of stretch so the front shoulder can turn faster.

I wouldn't use the cue with everyone as there are guys who don't turn the upper body well but with some it can help. I won't tell them to keep it in all the way though, just delay the turn.

 

[dominik]

WW, I believe there is more going on in the torso than the 'strap' that Mud discussed that runs from the lead shoulder, along the back, and connecting to the rear hip.

Take note that with the lead shoulder 'down and in', that the distance between the "lead shoulder and lead hip" is less than the distance between the "rear shoulder and rear hip". That relationship is reversed as the swing is launched.

At swing launch the distance between the "lead shoulder and lead hip" is expanded ... elevating the lead lat and pulling the lead shoulder upwards.

Isn't that basically the good old "spine engine " concept?

 

[_MIA_]

I'm struggling a bit with the second part .... specifically the hip 'down and in' portion. Any chance that could be the rear side oblique instead of the rear hip?

TM would say it was the rear leg...

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

Isn't that basically the good old "spine engine " concept?

Some may think that way. I personally have zero thought of the 'spine engine' in using the torso as a primary engine.

 

[Rolling Hard]

spine engine = torso engine. It's the same thing. There is a lot of different muscles and fascia that stretch and fire around the spine. As a group they are called the torso. Including the rectus abdominis. LOL

 

[Mudders Brudder]

Bold above ... yes to the first part ... I have a feel of the 'strap' stretching/tightening as the lead shoulder is moved down & in.

I'm struggling a bit with the second part .... specifically the hip 'down and in' portion. Any chance that could be the rear side oblique instead of the rear hip?

As we spoke before, I use the rear hip simply because it's a precise anatomical location (just like I use other bony landmarks instead of generalized muscles, tendons, or ligaments)...whereas the "rear side oblique" stretches from just under the pec to the top of the iliac crest....

...and one could turn the lead shoulder with the "rear obliques" before the turning the rear hip which I don't want.

That said, I don't have a problem with you or others using the "obliques" to explain it, as they are a big part of the movement, so if your hitters understand it, and learn the movement that way as long as it's from the "bottom-->up"....then that's just fine with me as well.

 

[Mudders Brudder]

TM would say it was the rear leg...

And I'd be OK with that as well...because I've used that with success with a couple kids who could wrap their mind around how the move the "rear hip" w/o doing it by trying to pull it with the lead hip/leg. Ugh... So the rear leg to turn/drive the rear hip is cool with me too.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

Donny's "Rock the U" is simply a setup for the launching of the swing. It is a mechanic to arrive at a favorable 'hitting orientation'. Many young developing hitters have a tendency to either rely on a linear arm push and/or momentum. Arriving at a favorable hitting orientation gives them the opportunity to tap into their torso-engine and learn that angular acceleration forces are significantly greater than straight line forces.

 

[Mudders Brudder]

Donny's "Rock the U" is simply a setup for the launching of the swing. It is a mechanic to arrive at a favorable 'hitting orientation'.

Geez Five, why you gotta go, and do that? Now I gotta go add another name on the ever going list of the...."position of power"(Hudgens), "connection point"(Slaught), "position of truth"(Tewks), "torque position"(TM), "launch position"(many), “hitting position”(many), and now "hitting orientation"(FFS). Hahaha...

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

MB, you literally made me laugh out loud.

I work with a fairly wide-array of hitters. Always looking for a better way to get these hitters to pass through a favorable/powerful swing launch position/orientation.

You would think that if you showed someone how to use their hips/torso-engine, that they would naturally prepare their body during the 'move out' to use their hips/torso-engine ... and some do ... but I tend to work with a good number of hitters that need to be specifically instructed to pass though such a position/orientation.