12U Pitching

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Apr 28, 2014
2,316
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55 is still above average at 14U. The girls that get pounded at that speed are getting too much of the plate. 60+ isn't that big of deal against those teams because they see it all the time. What they don't see are pitchers with pinpoint accuracy. Moving the ball up and down just outside the corners would baffle even the programs you mentioned. Add a little movement and change of speeds and she'd do just fine against their 18U teams.

We faced Mercado's, Ohana tigers, Batbusters, Sting, all top teams on the west coast. They didn't have dominate pitching. But we have very good arms... we have 3 kids who could spot a ball within an inch and they got hit. And our kids have game speed at 60..
There is just a different level of ball that not a lot of people know about. I know I didn't. They foul off anything close.. and then they hit.. single after single. Not driving balls in gaps just hard hit balls.
This week 2 of our kids are at the usssa futures and have given up a total of 2 hits long with 37Ks in 17 innings. These girls are legit D1 prospects and when they faced West Coast high level hitting they got hit around. No one will tell me that 55mph pinpoint pitching would beat these kids. Not after what I saw.
:)
And they have good Change ups and change eye levels pretty well.
 
Last edited:
Jun 8, 2016
16,118
113
We faced Mercado's, Ohana tigers, Batbusters, Sting, all top teams on the west coast. They didn't have dominate pitching. But we have very good arms... we have 3 kids who could spot a ball within an inch and they got hit. And our kids have game speed at 60..
There is just a different level of ball that not a lot of people know about. I know I didn't. They foul off anything close.. and then they hit.. single after single. Not driving balls in gaps just hard hit balls.
This week 2 of our kids are at the usssa futures and have given up a total of 2 hits long with 37Ks in 17 innings. These girls are legit D1 prospects and when they faced West Coast high level hitting they got hit around. No one will tell me that 55mph pinpoint pitching would beat these kids. Not after what I saw.
:)

I know this is softball and there is only one Greg Maddux, but he got by (and by get by I mean dominated) with a below average fastball for most of his career due to his control and movement. That said with dominant speed you can get away with a lot more...there is a reason why you don't see many P5 pitchers throwing in 50's :cool:
 
Last edited:
Apr 28, 2014
2,316
113
I know this is softball and there is only one Greg Maddux, but he got by (and by get by I mean dominated) with a below average fastball for most of his career due to his control and movement. That said with dominant speed you can get away with a lot more...there is a reason why you don't see many P5 pitchers throwing in 50's :cool:

I loved Maddux! I will tell you I was shocked at the level of hitting by West Coast teams. My DD had a very good freshman high school season, was excellent in travel ball against very good competition all fall and spring. Then we faced the California teams and she was hit around good. It was a great learning for her and the teammates. I was always in the camp of accuracy beats speed and still feel that it can.. But no 55MPH pinpoint pitching can even hang with West Coast hitting.
 
Jun 8, 2016
16,118
113
I loved Maddux! I will tell you I was shocked at the level of hitting by West Coast teams. My DD had a very good freshman high school season, was excellent in travel ball against very good competition all fall and spring. Then we faced the California teams and she was hit around good. It was a great learning for her and the teammates. I was always in the camp of accuracy beats speed and still feel that it can.. But no 55MPH pinpoint pitching can even hang with West Coast hitting.

Maddux did what he did because of constrol and movement. I don't know enough about softball pitching to know whether it is even possible for a softball pitcher to get the same type of movement Maddux had on his 2 seamer.

https://twitter.com/pitchingninja/status/888827958441463808
 
May 23, 2015
999
63
Pitch calling is very important but a kid throwing 55 with laser accuracy will get barrled up against Mercados A's, the OC batbusters, EC bullets high level teams, Georgia Impact.
I'm not saying a kid can't have a good run Pitching at 55 in local stuff.. but get to the high level competition and that becomes batting practice. I've seen it first hand.

It's just not true, even slightly true. A legit 55 is great speed. Understanding strengths and weaknesses are critical. Understanding tendencies of the batter are also critical at a high level. You can't chart that. IF they can literally spot within an inch and IF they're legitimately throwing 55, and they're not being successful it's 100% the coaches fault. "Barreling up" tells me a lot. Successful pitchers will not give the lineup a ton of pitches to smash. Missing should be an accident bad coaching is not

High Schools, Colleges, Farm Clubs, and MLB is filled with flame throwers and few pitchers. Anyone can throw gas it's not a big deal these days. Maddux would throw a complete game shut out to the worlds best hitters and never throw a curveball. I've caught a S ton of very good pitchers, hundreds. Very few great pitchers. He was taught and practiced precision
 
May 23, 2015
999
63
Maddux did what he did because of constrol and movement. I don't know enough about softball pitching to know whether it is even possible for a softball pitcher to get the same type of movement Maddux had on his 2 seamer.

https://twitter.com/pitchingninja/status/888827958441463808

100% correct. He would throw a fastball with 4 or 5 different speeds and a change up with even more. You can also control movement and revs by indexing different fingers. It's all in the minutia
 

JAD

Feb 20, 2012
8,231
38
Georgia
I respectfully disagree.. They are both important. A kid with pinpoint accuracy throwing 55 at the 14U A level against top level competition will get slaughtered.

My $0.02...most hitters have a "sweet spot" where they like pitches, say 55-65 for a college player. Any pitcher that throws faster, or slower than the hitters "sweet spot" will give them trouble. My DD tops out @ 64-65 and is never going to blow the ball by D1 hitters, therefore she needs her pitches to move, cover both sides of the plate, and she needs to be able to change speeds. I would also like to point out that good hitters can adjust to speed if the pitch is flat.
 
Nov 18, 2013
2,255
113
We faced Mercado's, Ohana tigers, Batbusters, Sting, all top teams on the west coast. They didn't have dominate pitching. But we have very good arms... we have 3 kids who could spot a ball within an inch and they got hit. And our kids have game speed at 60..
There is just a different level of ball that not a lot of people know about. I know I didn't. They foul off anything close.. and then they hit.. single after single. Not driving balls in gaps just hard hit balls.
This week 2 of our kids are at the usssa futures and have given up a total of 2 hits long with 37Ks in 17 innings. These girls are legit D1 prospects and when they faced West Coast high level hitting they got hit around. No one will tell me that 55mph pinpoint pitching would beat these kids. Not after what I saw.
:)
And they have good Change ups and change eye levels pretty well.

I know what you're saying and it's eye opening when you see that level of play. First time I saw the Batbusters it was like watching the Yankees. I've also seen a fair number of D1 prospects. If your three pitchers could really throw 60 with pinpoint accuracy AND have good change ups you have a staff better than every NCAA team out there. I'm not saying your pitchers aren't great. Maybe just not quite as accurate that you think. Within an inch is an awfully high standard and one that quite frankly I've never seen a pitcher do on EVERY pitch. You can be a dang good pitcher hitting your spots 8-9 times out of 10, but its those few misses that make or break you.
 

JAD

Feb 20, 2012
8,231
38
Georgia
I know what you're saying and it's eye opening when you see that level of play. First time I saw the Batbusters it was like watching the Yankees. I've also seen a fair number of D1 prospects. If your three pitchers could really throw 60 with pinpoint accuracy AND have good change ups you have a staff better than every NCAA team out there. I'm not saying your pitchers aren't great. Maybe just not quite as accurate that you think. Within an inch is an awfully high standard and one that quite frankly I've never seen a pitcher do on EVERY pitch. You can be a dang good pitcher hitting your spots 8-9 times out of 10, but its those few misses that make or break you.

DD had to adjust to the collegiate strike zone last season as it is much tighter than ASA, PGF, USSSA, ect. A "pinpoint accurate" HS/TB pitcher can still struggle to throw strikes in college and will get ROCKED if she leaves too many fatties over the middle of the plate.
 
Jan 28, 2017
1,662
83
Kids get better by being challenged. I know this doesn't exactly answer the question but perhaps the underlying reason for the question. As long
as she still gets circle time at a level that perhaps is a bit higher than she is at she will benefit imo.

Looking forward to her being challenged and I'm sure she will be. Kinda trying to ask a double question. Also, wondering what speed she will see while hitting.
 

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