Does the riseball really rise???

[BoardMember]

See if you can pick out the sudden rise/run rate increase. IMO, it happens early in the sequence when the velocity/spin rates are the greatest:

The following is an overlay mapping of the ball positions as they relate to a line drawn from the first position to the last markable position of the ball:

It shows the the rise/run rate changing early, then flattening to a "fairly consistant" rise/run mid-flight, then dropping back down:

 

[BoardMember]

Keeping in mind that a 63mph rise ball from approx. 39-40 ft. (including the push/drag release point), is reaching the hitting zone in less then 1/2 second. It's my opinion that the mind "NOTES THE JUMP" (change in rise/run) when it actually happens...........

 

[BoardMember]

Keeping in mind that a 63mph rise ball from approx. 39-40 ft. (including the push/drag release point), is reaching the hitting zone in less then 1/2 second. It's my opinion that the mind "NOTES THE JUMP" (change in rise/run) when it actually happens...........

The following is an "exact pixel mapping" of one of my pitchers rise/run rates to compare/comfirm what I see with Sarah. The conclusions we amazingly similar.

Pixel mapping is used as a precise measurement of positioning within the picture frame. By enlarging each frame, and marking the exact position of the center of the ball, one can use an advanced image editor to "note" the "pixel height" in each frame.

Pixels in each picture are measured top to bottom, with the lowest number at the top of the frame. IE, the very top of the frame is the first pixel. So as the position increases in height, the pixel position number decreases......

I've marked the rise rate in pixels at each position. As you can see, the largest change happens early, in the first 3 frames...............

Enjoy!

 

[Rick Pauly]

Board Member
Some excellent work! Trust me, as stated before I would like to believe a riseball rises, but I want to ensure all factors are taken into consideration relative to the pixel mapping.
Help me understand a few things: 1) I see the difference in the first three frames-----don't understand then why when I view it live with a ball coming at me it appears to make its "jump" at about the 30 ft. distance. Is it brain/vision lag?
2) looking at the pixel mapping of your student (who does appear to get good spin/speed to hold her angle) the pixel numbers near the end of the ball flight indicate it dips and then rises again.
3) what affect does the pixel mapping have relative to the ball speed slowing down as it travels to the catcher? Does the camera capture a consistent run rate when the ball is losing speed as it travels farther?
4) what effect does the surface of the playing field have on the pixel mapping--i.e. the pitchers area typically has a hole/dip in the landing area.
5) are you able to translate pixels into a relative distance? How much would you calculate the ball is jumping?


Can't believe your posting hasn't generated more feedback--I definitely appreciate your efforts.
Rick

 

[tom.guerry]

more cool stuff:

http://webusers.npl.uiuc.edu/~a-nathan/pob/ppt/SABR38_June08.ppt#375,20,Summary

 

[batsics1]

This is a composite of the trajectories of a rise, fastball and drop from this study. I added a batter as a reference. The rectangle in the middle represents, more or less, the decision/reaction area of the pitches flight path.

 

[slider201]

Looking at the pixel numbers 0, +2, +3, +4, +3, ...

assuming point 0 was not the real release point, the numbers indicate a flat rise and not a positive rise. With the fifth point, the ball begins a negative rise and goes on down from there.

Looking at the analysis of Sarah, it looks to me like the ball is mapped a little high, a little low, not exact. The ball's path seems to follow a normal negative rise path.

On another note, notice when the catcher begins to react - when the ball is a little less than half way. This is also the point where a batter begins to react.

 

[tom.guerry]

Do not confuse pseudoscience like looking at video and putting little marks on it with real science as demonstrated by Bahill and Nathan and Russell, for example,

The spin rates for lift defying gravity are well beyond human abilities.

"hopping" is highly unlikely outside of the knuckler, but perhaps possible due to things like drag crisis.

the way perception works as described by Bahill is enough to describe all the things people swear they see that are not scientific reality.

stay tuned.

 

[Rick Pauly]

Board Member
Hoping you can address some of my previous questions----I am relatively open mind and will listen, digest, and then form my opinion. Again, you went to a lot of work to do the pixel mapping---since I am technically challenged I really would like to know more.
Rick

 

[Rick Pauly]

I do believe that the area of departure where the riseball, fastball, dropball change planes is where the "jump" appears to happen on a riseball. The brain has always been calibrated to know the ball is going to begin dropping at a certain rate and then it doesn't in the case of the riseball. Some brains are tougher to retrain than others----but getting back to an old discussion, how much more effective is a pitcher that can master both the riseball and the dropball---not to mention some other pitches that doen't drop according to past learning.
Rick