Softball Swing vs. Baseball Swing - 2

[RayR]

Mark H,

My term of direct hand path means that we are getting the hands to contact without a hitch. Ex. Girls who drop hands have poor hand path which makes it difficult to get the hands through a pitch up in the zone. I use a very cheap tool to prove hand path issues. The Derek Jeter (from Kalamazoo like me by the way) endorsed zip line. Several of my clients have fixed hand path issues with this tool that is about $30 bucks. You can raise it up and down but I like it higher. I also like the line to teach my students to keep the barrell through the path of the ball as long as possible. I also use high tee drills.

I agree that this is usually a major issue with younger fastpitch hitters. And hands dropping coincides with the back elbow getting ahead and barrel getting too flat and this leads to front arm barring and coming around the ball. I would also say that this pattern is usually associated with poor hitting posture and usually no pelvic involvement in the swing. Good stuff...

 

[Darrick Brown]

Amen brother, I hear ya with the elbow and arm barring. Believe it or not I have a kid who just signed to play D1 ball and this is a big issue she has. Can yank the ball out of the park with anybody in our area. We are still working on this issue but when she gets it right she hits to all parts of the park with power.

 

[Mark H]

Mark - Because you are so often the true voice of reason for us "non-experts" that are parents just trying to help our kids, (I am sure this will get a long post from others with links and video proving you are not) and were smart enough (for the most part) to stay out of this crazy discussion, I wanted your opinion. You have mentioned many times that Epstein hitters find a ceiling. I do not doubt this but in your opinion where is that ceiling, in youth ball - HS - Div III college etc...?

And as an example I watched video of Ortiz (Very big, strong and quick man)and he seems to exhibit pelvic tilt and rotation with the box formation Englishbey teaches, But then Pedroia (a much smaller guy) took one "yaaad" the other night with a very Epstein like swing.

One other quick question. I do love Englishbey's teachings about pelvic tilt and connection. Is there anyone else that teaches the hip action (swivel) better or different. This part of his teachings is like watching a foreign film without subtitles and based on your recommendations of comparing it to slow motion VDO I am not sold the swivel (hip action) is correct. More correct than others but not correct.

Thanks I appreciate your opinion.

You hit a ceiling when the pitchers start changing speeds and hitting the low corners IME. There are basic differences with the nature of rotation in terms of the weight shift being back to front or front to back in addition to your point off the top of my head. Not sure what you mean by swiveling. Also beware of counter rotation of the torso much away from the pitcher.

 

[Mark H]

Mark H,

My term of direct hand path means that we are getting the hands to contact without a hitch. Ex. Girls who drop hands have poor hand path which makes it difficult to get the hands through a pitch up in the zone. I use a very cheap tool to prove hand path issues. The Derek Jeter (from Kalamazoo like me by the way) endorsed zip line. Several of my clients have fixed hand path issues with this tool that is about $30 bucks. You can raise it up and down but I like it higher. I also like the line to teach my students to keep the barrell through the path of the ball as long as possible. I also use high tee drills.

OK, I refer to that problem as disconnection/pushing the hands down. We could talk about the roots of this a long time but it's tied up in learning how to get beyond using the hands/arms to take the bat to the ball rather than incorporating posture. Often/usually a top hand related problem. I agree it's to be avoided/fixed. Too many call the following clip a "direct hand path". I didn't figure you were one of those.

http://imageevent.com/siggy/hitting...ul2.zebra_s?p=17&n=1&m=20&c=4&l=0&w=4&s=0&z=9

 

[Mark H]

I agree that this is usually a major issue with younger fastpitch hitters. And hands dropping coincides with the back elbow getting ahead and barrel getting too flat and this leads to front arm barring and coming around the ball. I would also say that this pattern is usually associated with poor hitting posture and usually no pelvic involvement in the swing. Good stuff...

Exactly.


.

 

[Mark H]

Amen brother, I hear ya with the elbow and arm barring. Believe it or not I have a kid who just signed to play D1 ball and this is a big issue she has. Can yank the ball out of the park with anybody in our area. We are still working on this issue but when she gets it right she hits to all parts of the park with power.

I know a kid very well who could hit with power to all fields who had this problem. You can hit the ball very hard this way. Consistency? That's another question.

 

[Darrick Brown]

Exactly, consistency was an issue. Lets hope we get this fixed or D1 pitching could be an issue.

 

[Bud]

Of all the discussions on all the forums I have read, I like this one best, and the points made by boardmember were very worthwhile.

Bud

 

[Wellphyt]

In an earlier post someone stated "Epstein's drills promote a weight shift from front to back rather than back to front thus promoting bug squishing to mention one problem."

I'm confused. I have Epstein's fastptich videos and Step 1 in the "Numbers drill" clearly says to weight shift forward during the stride. When my daughter strides her weight shifts to the ball of her front foot, her heal is slightly off the ground and her front knee is slightly bent.

When her front heal drops her back heal comes up and the weight on her back foot is concentrated in the ball of the foot (no bug squishing at all). She basically pushes off the ball of her back foot to trigger the hips.

I think I must have watched his videos 50 times before I actually picked up on every little detail. All I can say is that when she hits live pitching the drills all seem to come together where her swing looks pretty close to the MLB swing.

The more I read boards like this the more I wonder how much time people have spent actually teaching with some of the material that is being discussed. I only say that because some of the concerns I hear about how Epstein's drills are going to cause all kinds of bad habits haven't manifested themselves in my daughter.

She doesn't collaspe her back side, her back elbow never leads her hands and she never pulls off the ball. She kills the middle half in pitch and when she is patient enough to let the outside pitch get deep she usually hits a line drive to the opposite field.

It seems to me that all of these instructors are trying to teach pretty much the same thing. Especially given the fact that they all use videos of MLB players and in some cases their students to make their points. In which case what we are really debating here is who has the best drills and who is the best communicator/teacher.

I think a combination approach is probably best. Next up for me is Englishbey.

 

[SBFAMILY]

Some good points. Have you ever tried RVP. It is designed by Don Slaught. Softball part is Mike and Sue. It states there are many Styles, but the MLB swing and the Elite softball swing are the same. Like you I have watched many hours of different swings posted on a four screen page and stopped each swing at each frame to watch for differences. You can learn a ton, but drawing a line on the back foot and watching what happens with each hitter. . like Englishbey, but Don and Epstein have had a few disagreements.