What ages/levels advanced pitches

[sluggers]

Thanks for posting the Jenny Finch speeds. Note that it is for "top speed". Most pitchers have a top speed and a cruising speed (normal pitching speed during a game). My daughter's top speed was 67 mph at 22 YOA, but she cruised at 62 mph. Jenny's top speed was 71, but she cruises at 67.

My daughter (a good D1 pitcher) had a cruising speed of 55 mph when she was 14, 60 mph at 17, and then topped out at 62 in college.

One kid we knew had a great college career (much better than my daughter's), and she cruised around 65 mph, and had a top speed of around 68 mph. She had a good, but not great, rise.

A couple of kids we know had great riseballs but cruised at 55 mph. Both tried pitching D1, but it didn't work out. One became an extremely successful D3 pitcher, and had a great college experience.

We knew a lot of kids who threw over 60 mph, but had no "jaw dropping" breaking pitch. They weren't successful in college. The good hitters at any level in college (d1, d2, d3, juco) will murder anyone without a breaking pitch no matter how hard they throw.

If you are a parent, you can figure out if your child is good enough to play college ball. It really isn't very difficult to decipher, but parents being parents have a hard time rationally evaluating their daughter's abilities.

I've told parents a thousand times to go to a baseball academy to find out how fast their child really throws, and all I ever hear is, "We did that, but their speed gun was broke. It showed her throwing 10 mph slower than she really throws."

JRW

 

[Amy in AZ.]

Everyone is giving good advice. My methods are not set in stone. I have a little girl coming in tomorrow that throws 42 (she's 12). She hits her spots well and has a change up. She is pretty good for around here. I want her to continue to gain control and speed and confidence. At her age, speed will get her a long ways. But, if she is going to need a drop ball or something to compete at 14U, we will do that. I feel like she has so far to go on the "radar" (I don't use one), that I think a 3rd pitch can wait.

 

[Pops]

Pitching Speeds

Hi Everyone,

I got this info from Marc Dagenais website.

Average Softball Pitching Speed

Age, Average Speed, Top Speed

10u, 37 - 41 mph, 43 - 46 mph

12u, 44 - 47 mph, 50 - 53 mph

14u, 46 - 49 mph, 52 - 55 mph

16u, 50 - 53 mph, 54 - 57 mph

18u, 53 - 56 mph, 58 - 61 mph

College, 59 - 64 mph, 65 - 72 mph

This should give everybody an idea where their dd stands. Just remember there are exceptions to the rule and speed isn't everything. Location and movement trump speed.

Pops

 

[sluggers]

I disagree with "location and movement trump speed". You have to have both to be successful in college. Remember that college softball is about winning a one run game. So, it only takes one hitter and one at bat to beat you.

If you throw hard and have no location or movement, the good hitters will simply wait for the fastball down the middle. Sooner or later, you will throw one there, either intentionally or mistakenly.

If you have great location and movement, but no speed, the good hitters will read the spin (since they have all kinds of time to read the spin) and lay-off the junk. As soon as they get a fastball near the plate, they will hammer it.

Again, I've known two kids that threw around 55 mph with tremendous riseballs and control. One holds the state high school strikeout record. But, neither were successful in D1. One of the two kids was extremely successful in D3.

JRW

 

[Rick Pauly]

For Amy
If you wait until they can throw 55 MPH and are 14 ys.old to introduce the rise/curve spin you will have an extremely difficult time teaching them to throw these pitches. For their first 4 years their hand/fingers will have rolled over in a drop motion----this will not be easy to change. For 4 years their body/spine angle will always be near veriticle at release----now you are going to ask the body/spine to be tilted at 8-10 degrees behind verticle at release for a riseball. Not easy for the body to change to do this.

My suggestion is that you work on all the various spins/body positions at an early age. Don't expect a young pitcher to throw a killer rise at age 12, but ensure they have the spin and mechanics in place for when they get stronger/faster. It will be much easier!

Rick

 

[Amy in AZ.]

Thanks for your kind reply, Rick.

I treat each girl individually, so my way is not set in stone.

I am new to Tucson and I don't have any girls that even have control of their change, yet. In fact, I have some beginning 14 YOs.

What I had studied, in reference to the rise ball, said that if a girl doesn't have speed she is wasting her time trying to get a ball to move.

Heck, I have some girls coming in that don't have a good overhand throw, let alone a pitch.

Here's a question. How does the OH throw compare speed wise to the UH throw? I am finding that it is the same (using the gloveradar).

 

[kdljjc]

What can I do as a parent and as a coach to help my daughter (10 yrs old) to improve her pitching? She loves pitching and seems to have a passion for it, she practices in the yard almost every day. As a minor league softball coach, I am not sure where to begin? She started pitching last year and I see a great improvement this year. I don't know of any camps in my area and not too knowledgeable on pitching. She has a good form on the mound, but she just knows the basic fast pitch. In minor league, they use the half wind up and not the full wind up. She started out last year with the basic underhand throw to get the accuracy down, and this year started out with the partial wind up. I have read over 100 articles on pitching and just not sure yet.

 

[Rick Pauly]

Try to get some video of the National Team Pitchers or other very elite pitchers----pay special attention to the arm/body motion from the 12 o'clock position to release. They are all very similar---try to emulate this. The premotion before 12 o'clock and the follow through after release are not nearly as important-------yes you still need good mechanics to get you to 12 o'clock effeciently but this only adds to about 10% of your total speed potential. The other 90% comes from 12 to release. Don't force the hand to follow thru to any specific position---let it flow. The wrist/finger action of the various pitches will dictate follow thru.

 

[sluggers]

I totally disagree with Rick. I happen to be a wiz at differential calculus. Will watching me do calculus help a 10 year old learn her multiplication tables? I doubt it. If it were as simple watching an elite athlete perform, everyone would be a scratch golfer by simply watching Tiger Woods play a round.

She needs a pitching coach. Learning pitching is not a lot different than learning any skill--she needs someone who (a) knows how to do the skill so she can see it being done and (b) someone who can watch her and tell her what she is doing wrong and how to correct her motion. (Again, think "How would I teach her math?" You first show her how to do the math, then you have her try it, and then you correct what she did wrong, and have her try it again, over and over and over again.)

Generally, finding a good pitching coach is very difficult--because you need someone who (1) can actually pitch, (2) understands how to pitch and (3) knows how to communicate with a child athlete.

First, find someone who pitched and was successful at a fairly high level. For a female instructor, they should have had success at the collegiate level. (By success, I mean actually did something in college. There are many collegiate pitchers who wash out.) If a man, find someone who pitched on Class A or better men's fastpitch team.

Second, stay away from the very best pitchers. They tend to be unique, special athletes that have little in common with "the rest of us". (It would be a little like getting a hitting lesson from Willie Mays--he can show you how to do things, but you wouldn't have the coordination, strength, or speed to do any of it.)

Communication: Just talk to them and see if what they say makes sense. Everything in pitching has a simple, logical explanation. If the guy or gal sounds like a fast talker trying to sell you a bad used car, then the guy or gal probably is clueless.

Finally, find someone who has some fun. It makes the whole process more interesting.

JRW

 

[Amy in AZ.]

There are always exceptions. Ernie Parker is one of the best known pitching coaches in the U.S. He never pitched.

I know many former athletes that had to learn to teach pitching, because their kids needed them.

There are adults that are right now, learning to pitch so they can pass along instruction.