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Thread: Throwing Mechanics Questions?

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    Checking out the clubhouse CoachDanBlewett's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rosey View Post
    Padro's Explaination confuses me in this video. He says the pitcher is flying open with his front leg. I don't see it. His front leg looks like it's in a straight line and he says the pitcher's foot should be at a 45. The pitcher's foot is actually turned a little, even the graphic shows it. But in Padro's pitching he pointed his toe toward the catcher see next video below.
    https://youtu.be/QT6Oom9DsHM?t=35

    Padro's Pitching Mechanics - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sm7rWeAUK0s

    Then there's an old school video of Candrea teaching a 45 on the back toe and front toe but as the player goes to throw she turns the back more sideways.
    https://youtu.be/fB6-_rRxMVE?t=321

    I assumed Candrea's video is just old and there's better information out there now. But I have been videotaping some Division 1 throwers who I've noticed angle the back foot and the front foot.
    Hey Rosey,

    Pedro, unfortunately, doesn't know what he's talking about in that video.

    The research is pretty clear - if the trunk rotates before the lead foot strikes the ground, then it does add stress to the elbow. But watch Koehler's Miami logo on his jersey...it barely moves, meaning his trunk does NOT rotate before his stride foot lands). You'll see that Miami logo rotate forward with his body AFTER his foot lands.

    Unfortunately, a lot of great players don't necessarily know how to teach, and the biomechanics of pitching are kind of complex. You're also right that in Pedro's own delivery, his foot lands at 45 or so, but though it is ideal for the foot to land a bit closed (up to 45) it can't land too much more than that or the hips won't open fully - the planted cleats and the limits of ankle, hip and knee flexibility won't allow it. I teach a 1 o clock landing, which is as closed as the foot can be while still allowing the hips to open.

    Never heard of anyone pointing the back foot at 45 like Candrea recommends.
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    Checking out the clubhouse CoachDanBlewett's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by quincy View Post
    Posting out of school, people here are smarter then me.

    Lead foot pointed towards the target places a lot of unneeded stress on front leg. I do not think age, flexibility or other factors matter. 45 for front foot sounds right to me.

    Back foot is different. I think parallel to target is correct, not 45.
    I'd mostly agree - I think its a little unnatural to point the lead toe directly at the target - the hips will tend to fly open with it, so slightly closed (I use 1 o clock for a righty as my persona vernacular) is ideal. Most position players land at 1 o clock from what I've seen.
    Dan Blewett
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rosey View Post
    I'm trying to piece together a throwing seminar to get people in our area to stop doing wrist flicks. I come across different views on the the lead toe direction. Land at a 45 or land pointed at the target. My initial thoughts are start with both toes pointed sideways drive out keeping it that way for as long as possible and at the last minute before you land try to point the lead toe toward the target. My question is ..Is it different depending on the athlete's age, flexibility, ect. where a lot of kids will land at a 45? I've also have seen a lot of people with a 45 on their back toe as well. Are there variations, are there absolutes? I will post some videos.
    Hi Rosey,

    I think there is definitely flexibility in the lead toe - somewhere between 12 o'clock (directly pointed to target) and 1 o'clock is what I feel is the safe zone. 2 o'clock or 3 o'clock and the hips can't rotate fully because the ankle and don't have enough flexibility to allow the hips to fully come through. They have enough to get from 1'oclock back to square.

    The rear foot...not so much. Should be perpendicular to the target - if its pointed at all forward, it will cause the hips to rotate forward prematurely.
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    Thanks! I'm looking forward to being a part of it.
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    I can talk softball all day cvsoftball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rosey View Post
    I'm trying to piece together a throwing seminar to get people in our area to stop doing wrist flicks. I come across different views on the the lead toe direction. Land at a 45 or land pointed at the target. My initial thoughts are start with both toes pointed sideways drive out keeping it that way for as long as possible and at the last minute before you land try to point the lead toe toward the target. My question is ..Is it different depending on the athlete's age, flexibility, ect. where a lot of kids will land at a 45? I've also have seen a lot of people with a 45 on their back toe as well. Are there variations, are there absolutes? I will post some videos.
    Rosey, have you watched any of Kobata's vids? I teach both feet at app. 45 so that the front shoulder can be set to the target.
    the map isn't the territory

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    I've watched some of Kobata's videos briefly but not his mechanical breakdown. I intend to, perhaps I can do it this weekend. I'm guessing that Padro can maybe be compared to the softball version of Jennie Finch teaching pitching the way she does.

    So, right now what I'm understanding...

    1.) Start perpendicular I'm sure there can be some variations here if the player's hip is fully closed to start but in the majority of the softball players I have seen they never get turned. They don't get perpendicular and their body never turns.
    2.) Drive out staying closed as long as possible, keeping front shoulder pointed at target
    3.) Last second knee rolls open and foot lands between 12-2. Preferably 1 to get full hip rotation and less stress on the knee. I have seen a lot of higher level baseball pitchers at what I thought was 12. I compare it to Abbott and Ueno stride toe orientation and that it requires a lot of hip mobility. Not many softball pitchers can get to 12 without losing the sequence or closing/opening too early.

    ***Side note it's really hard to focus on what the terms closed/open mean as it's opposite in softball pitching.***

    Overhand Throwing: Closed = Sideways, Open means bellybutton to target
    Softball Pitching: Open = Sideways, Closed = Bellybutton to target

    Thanks for the input Coach Dan. And great videos. They are similar to Wasserman's but free! I've been pushing my wife (Div. 1 Softball Coach) to make some as there really isn't anything out there. Especially with a female instructor talking. I will reference you in my seminar and send people to your webpage. Hopefully they will throw you some business.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rosey View Post
    I've watched some of Kobata's videos briefly but not his mechanical breakdown. I intend to, perhaps I can do it this weekend. I'm guessing that Padro can maybe be compared to the softball version of Jennie Finch teaching pitching the way she does.

    So, right now what I'm understanding...

    1.) Start perpendicular I'm sure there can be some variations here if the player's hip is fully closed to start but in the majority of the softball players I have seen they never get turned. They don't get perpendicular and their body never turns.
    2.) Drive out staying closed as long as possible, keeping front shoulder pointed at target
    3.) Last second knee rolls open and foot lands between 12-2. Preferably 1 to get full hip rotation and less stress on the knee. I have seen a lot of higher level baseball pitchers at what I thought was 12. I compare it to Abbott and Ueno stride toe orientation and that it requires a lot of hip mobility. Not many softball pitchers can get to 12 without losing the sequence or closing/opening too early.

    ***Side note it's really hard to focus on what the terms closed/open mean as it's opposite in softball pitching.***

    Overhand Throwing: Closed = Sideways, Open means bellybutton to target
    Softball Pitching: Open = Sideways, Closed = Bellybutton to target

    Thanks for the input Coach Dan. And great videos. They are similar to Wasserman's but free! I've been pushing my wife (Div. 1 Softball Coach) to make some as there really isn't anything out there. Especially with a female instructor talking. I will reference you in my seminar and send people to your webpage. Hopefully they will throw you some business.
    No problem, and yes your summary of points was all correct. Most baseball pitchers don't land at 12, but more toward that 1o'clock angle BUT - those pitchers that land on their heel (also a majority) will touch down on the heel then start to rotate before their entire cleat plants for good. So they might "land" at a 1 o'clock on the heel but rotate back toward 12 by the time all cleats are down. The research from ASMI says that the stride for a baseball pitcher ends officially when the first part of the foot touches, regardless of what that part might be. But, don't worry about that- between 12-2 like you said is a good range; most will be in the middle of that.

    That's awful that the open/closed language is backward - I didn't know that so I might address that in a video. Gonna confuse a lot of people!

    Thanks for kind words - I think putting good free info out there on the web is important, and you're right - NO ONE is teaching softball players how to do much of anything on YouTube or the internet. Few articles, few videos, its weird. It's even the same on the baseball side. It's downright strange to me that so few coaches -there are thousands of great ones out there- have started a website, started writing, or started a youtube channel. There's a lot of opportunity but its like there's a fear that's widespread in the industry. I dont know.
    Dan Blewett
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