how to handle DD

MNDad said:

I don’t think the answer is as clear cut as many believe. For a girl just learning, or an average pitcher wanting to improve, then more innings are probably best. If you have a girl who’s already pretty good, being on a highly competitive team with great coaching and girls who are more driven will get her from pretty good to elite.

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I follow a lot of local teams and players in my DD's age group, mostly for fun and curiosity. There's a player who's been a stud on a low level team for years now who just this year moved to one of the big names. I expect she'll be about a #3-4 pitcher, and probably not play as much as she's used to. On her old team she was a starting infielder, clean up hitter, and #1 pitcher. I've watched her over the years and have often thought she was wasting away with that level of play. I'm interested to see how she does this year, and how her parents do, going from the constant MVP to somewhere middle to low end. For some reason I just root for these girls to pull it out and earn their spot. It's fun to watch when they do. Plus when I spot them on a low level team and think they have potential, when they do well it proves me right I mean, being right is fun.

issue is not the record, I really could care less about Ws and Ls, was mentioned mostly to show they are winning somewhat. although that is an issue for DD, but as long as they get some Ws, she will be OK. It is that she feels almost as if she is regressing, and I have to agree with her for the most part.

I understand there is never enough practice time, but what practice time there is is not always used effectively, one of the issues I see. wont get into specifics to protect the innocent and guilty, just frustrating. Primary reason we moved her was to progress her development with more PT, but if when playing she holds back, will she progress?

And fundamentals are somewhat of an issue throughout the team (maybe HCs comment that DD was one of the most fundamental 2007s he had seen should have been a warning, she is good, but I would say in the 60-70th percentile when it comes to TB players in our general area), but very little practice time is spent on them, and there has been no mention (at least that I have heard) to the girls of the need to work outside of team practices, and this should be all the players.

Here's what it comes down to. Whether you like it or not, 12U is about player development no matter what the position. If she's a pitcher, then you want to get your DD circle time. If she plays other positions, you want to get her proper instruction at those positions as well. Fundamentals are the key at this age.


I had a parent tell me the other day, "She had more instruction in the past hour and 15 minutes than she's had in the past 4 years." I'm not bragging, however. I've been coaching for 16 years and teach all of the, "gold standards," that we espouse on here. If you want links, PM me and I'll send them to you for fielding, throwing, hitting, pitching etc. etc. or you can find them from some of my past posts. Again, it all comes down to player development at this age. If your current coach isn't doing his job, then it may be time to move on.

Sometimes it's more than the competency of the coach. DD was on a team with a coach who was extremely competent in coaching the game, however he had a very big issue with understanding how to motivate and inspire. He would do things that would almost purposefully destroy the confidence of the kids.
In looking at coaches I think all elements of their style need to be considered. I would lean more towards a coach with a better motivational style even if they lack a little in the mechanics side of the game

BT3100 said:

Sometimes it's more than the competency of the coach. DD was on a team with a coach who was extremely competent in coaching the game, however he had a very big issue with understanding how to motivate and inspire. He would do things that would almost purposefully destroy the confidence of the kids.
In looking at coaches I think all elements of their style need to be considered. I would lean more towards a coach with a better motivational style even if they lack a little in the mechanics side of the game

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I had a mixed team one year playing 12u. They were comprised of (4) 10U's, (4) 11U', (5)12U's and we were 13 players strong. Their previous coaches, although calling themselves TB coaches, taught them very little and it was up to me to bring them up to speed in order for them to be able to compete at their next age groups and a higher level of play. I pushed them hard. We played 14 tournaments that year and none were easy. We played top teams from all over the state.

Again, I rode them hard. If I didn't have 100% effort on the field or 100% mental focus every pitch, I pulled them for the inning.We started the season being run ruled 25-1, 22-3 etc. etc. By the end of the season, not only were we competing with them by only losing 7-6, 8-5, 9-6 but we actually managed to win a few.

When the season was over, I had only 2 returning for the following year and had to fold that team. That said, other than the 2 that wanted to stay, here's where the rest ended up. 4 of them walked on with no tryouts necessary to some of the top "Elite" teams/ organizations in the state which compete at the National level and usually do quite well. Another 3 walked on to some of the top "A" teams in the state which again compete nationally and do decent. 2 more were accepted to lower level "A" teams and the other 2 went to top "B" teams which would normally beat about half of the "A" teams they play.

I've heard from parents of the teams my previous players joined who know me. Yes, as they say, the TB world is an extremely small one. They've told me about how those parents complained that I was extremely unreasonable in my expectations. How they thought I was too hard on the girls and couldn't motivate them or was unwilling to. However, look at the results. Many parents fail to see that. Don't get me wrong; it was the players putting in all of the hard work but I gave them the proper skills/drills to practice and demanded that they do exactly that. So far as I'm concerned, I did more than my job but received no credit for it. So be it. If you want a "feel good" coach with little to no actual knowledge, go for it.

Many on here know me and have met me in person. They know my normal coaching style is not what I just stated. But, I was saddled with players way behind the curve and had to put them in the "pressure cooker'" as I put it. They either turn out overcooked or they rise to the top and fight their way to get better. Just because the parents think "coach" is too hard on their "precious DD'" doesn't mean we don't want the absolute best for them in their SB careers. That's our entire purpose if they're any kind of competent coach at all.

Depending upon the team, sometimes it takes a Marine Drill Sargent, sometimes a compassionate coach, others it may take the goofy, feel good coach and even others, a cross between all three. All are fine and a good coach knows which one is needed with the personality of their team.

Either way, if they don't know what or how to teach the proper mechanics, footwork, drills to practice, game stuations and game situational awareness, you might as well have your DD quit now if she wants to play at the collegiate level let alone be a starter in HS. JMHO

YOCOACH said:

I had a mixed team one year playing 12u. They were comprised of (4) 10U's, (4) 11U', (5)12U's and we were 13 players strong. Their previous coaches, although calling themselves TB coaches, taught them very little and it was up to me to bring them up to speed in order for them to be able to compete at their next age groups. I pushed them hard. We played 14 tournaments that year and none were easy. We played top teams from all over the state.

Again, I rode them hard. If I didn't have 100% effort on the field or 100% mental focus every pitch, I pulled them for the inning.We started the season being run ruled 25-1, 22-3 etc. etc. By the end of the season, not only were we competing with them by only losing 7-6, 8-5, 9-6 but we actually managed to win a few.

At the end of the season, I had only 2 returning for the following year and had to fold that team. That said, other than the 2 that wanted to stay, here's where the rest ended up. 4 of them walked on with no tryouts necessary to some of the top "Elite" teams/ organizations in the state. Another 3 walked on to some of the top "A" teams in the state. 2 more were accepted to lower level "A" teams and the other 2 went to top "B" teams which would normally beat about half of the "A" teams they play.

I've heard from other parents who know me (yes, as they say, the TB world is an extremely small one) about how those parents complained that I was extremely unreasonable in my expectations. How they thought I was too hard on the girls and couldn't motivate them or was unwilling to. However, look at the results. Many parents fail to see that. Don't get me wrong; it was the players putting in all of the hard work but I gave them the proper skills/drills to practice and demanded that they do exactly that. So far as I'm concerned, I did more than my job but received no credit for it. So be it. If you want a "feel good" coach with little to no actual knowledge, go for it.


Many on here know me and have met me in person. They know my normal coaching style is not what I just stated. But, I was saddled with players way behind the curve and had to put them in the "pressure cooker'" as I put it. They either turn out overcooked or they rise to the top and fight their way to get better. Just because the parents think "coach" is too hard on their "precious DD'" doesn't mean we don't want the absolute best for them in their SB careers. That's the entire purpose if they're any kind of competent coach at all. JMHO

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I think that's great!
There is one thing to be a hard as nails coach who expects results and another to say to a kid after they strike out or give up a big inning "I knew you were gonna fail".

BT3100 said:

I think that's great!
There is one thing to be a hard as nails coach who expects results and another to say to a kid after they strike out or give up a big inning "I knew you were gonna fail".

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The second kind of coach needs to be run out of town IMO. However, the hard as nails coach gets just as bad a rep as the first one in today's society. God forbid you demand results from players, even though they're kids, that can produce them. Especially since many of their parents have been receiving participation trophies for years when their DD played rec ball.

update

issues are just snowballing, and I need to vent.

This past weekend during warmups, as DD was waiting her turn at a hitting station, I asked her if she could see OK, as it appeared helmet (team helmets ordered without any fitting beforehand) was riding down on her face. She said it felt a little loose, and during this exchange (like 20 seconds tops), coach asks her why she is talking to her parent, does not let her give a response, says no one else is doing this (half team has no need, as there are HC + 4 ACs, all dads). I simply bit my tongue.

Two different tournaments, he asked why DD was not wearing belt (and she was not only player), she told him the buckle bothered her when she squatted behind plate, HC gives her dirty look. HC seems to have finally conceded this one to her).

Same day, last game, pitcher is struggling a little, and finally as she rolls one in, blurts out “I don’t have that pitch”. Apparently, coach keeps calling pitches for pitchers even if they do not have it. He pulls her off the mound instantly (pretty certain that family is done, not certain they are going to finish the fall even) to the dugout.

DD is doing OK at plate, not much power, but is getting on base pretty consistently (I think no Ks in last two weekends). Cannot crack top 5 (guess whose kids are in the top 5 of the order ) other than one game, he said he was gonna put her in two spot and she how she responded, she did great (four weeks ago, so not certain, but I remember it was good day at the plate), right back to 8th spot out of 10.

HC and lead AC argue judgement calls, and keep trying to argue, like they are going to change umps mind. I understand saying something, but say your piece and move on, bad example for the girls. They also make all sorts of comments on strike zone, including telling the girls it is OK, not a strike (I have always taught DD to adapt to the umpires’ zone, because they are not going to adapt to yours). A couple of swears also were let loose in the dugout this past weekend, not acceptable to me at 12u.

Possibly part of the problem is HC and lead AC are getting too caught up in winning and losing.

They call out number plays on defense, and some seem to result in people crashing even if batter does not show bunt, is he guessing? Also, they call out like 3 or 4 numbers, but team does not wear wristbands, so not certain how complicated this is (gonna ask DD to explain how it works tonight to me).

Also, rides girls pretty hard. I know some advocate being demanding, but there is also a point where it is counterproductive. He keeps asking too much, and they are just getting confused and demoralized. Lots of “overcoaching” and thinking this team is something it is not (really is a D level team, D for Daddy ball). Overcomplicating certain aspects, but missing easy corrections. HC + 4 AC, and no one can scan the outfield before each batter to make certain they are lined up correctly, one girls continually plays about 5 feet off line in left, corrected about once a weekend (lost cause on IF, as they instruct them out of position, corners behind the bag). No one calls out lack of backups unless the ball is missed (I always tried to make certain to praise if they were there and unneeded, and point it out if they weren’t there, needed or not). When girls do not make good contact on a swing, 7 out of 10 times, they are pulling their heads out (all hitting work is soft toss or tee) trying to see where they “hit” (ball is invariably foul or missed) it, not one mention of this (except me to DD

Last 3 or 4 practices, other than pitchers throwing and hitting stations (but no live pitching or machine pitch), entire practice spent on cutoffs from OF and bunt coverage with different runner scenarios, along with underhand and backhand flips. My DD, catcher (or other catcher for that matter), has not thrown more than 40 feet in last three weeks other than at end of warmups each inning and in live game scenarios. With all that, so many times this weekend, because he has them all confused, cutoff received throw 10 feet from second, and threw to second, even with no play there. Some of those throws to cut were only like 30 feet.

When we signed on, he indicated two catchers, and was going to keep roster to 10, to make certain all the girls played a lot. This weekend, new catcher shows up, and is behind plate 6 out of the 10 or so innings played, DD and other catcher of original two each get 2 innings.

Through like a dozen games, all short (1:20 limit), only allowed one pitcher to throw complete game, most pulled when they were doing OK. Ps need to get used to throwing longer periods.

on the issue of just having her do it the way she knows, issue is (and this is one of the reasons she wanted to move to TB, so I would not coach) if I tell her something, even if she knows I am right, she goes with "coach wants me to do this/this way, youre not my coach any more”

as for helping out, unfortunately, not really possibly due to physical limitations (bum shoulder and knee have now become completely wrecked shoulder and knee). I might offer to do games on GC (HC keeps paper book himself) just so he will have stats, gotta get portable charger first though. maybe having real stats to base decisions on might prompt some real critical thinking.

Part of me wants to simply bag it now, issue is I am not certain where else we can go, no one in area seems to be looking for Catchers.

Thanks for listening

This sounds somewhat like our first year of TB playing 10U a few years ago. We were basically sold a bill of goods, played one tourney and a few scrimmages in the fall, and were getting crushed every time. It was actually embarrassing. It was basically an all star team from the rec league turned TB team. There were probably 5 girls that had any real talent, and the rest were just there. By March/April, I was pretty much done with the whole thing, but asked my DD what she wanted to do. As frustrated as myself and my wife were, we didn't want her to just quit. It wasn't the kind of lesson I wanted her to learn. We finished out the year and moved on. Now as a 2nd year 12U player, she's on an A team and couldn't be happier. There's always going to be growing pains, especially with new teams. I know you're sitting there watching practice thinking "WTF are they doing?!". One thing I learned is that I'm there to support my DD, and life got a lot easier as I shut my mouth and let her do her thing. What she wasn't learning in practice she learned in camps and clinics, and grew as a player.

As far as your DD catching, I've dealt with this as well. My DD caught all year in 10U, moved to a new team for 12U and was the clear #1 on the team. However, she was needed more in the OF/3B late spring/summer for her speed and arm and would catch a game only here or there. Now, on her new A team, she doesn't catch at all and doesn't seem fazed by it one bit. As much as I enjoyed watching her behind the plate and throw runners out, she has embraced her place on the team, which is the most important thing to me.


It's fall, none of it truly matters. It's basically the preseason before we here up north get stuck inside to work on hitting and grounders and play a few dome tourneys. What matters is how you come out of the winter ready to attack the spring and summer when the games really count.