Tirade by Indiana softball coach forces university to investigate line between motiva

Easton33 · Aug 25, 2013

02Crush said:
Yelling versus Yelling Profanities directly at a player for "SUCKING" is greatly different. Also, Were you alive when Wooden coached? I mean to say you seem to be quoting others as opposed to watching games. That would be called heresay. Bottom line is this.....Cursing a player because you feel they stink it up is your problem as the coach, in most cases, YOU PICKED THE PLAYER. Maybe in the end one could say you should've picked better.

Actually, Wooden readily admitted to doing those things so, yeah I am quoting...... HIM. Pretty sure he was at all the games he coached.

This is not the norm for this coach and is not her coaching "style".
In college, we got dressed in our locker room. Glad it was considered private back then.
If you have 18 y/o defending this country prepared to sacrifice life and limb, do you think it unreasonable a college student (future leader) be able to withstand a coach yelling at them in return for a free eduction? (Or partial) Build your house where wind can't blow it down.

softballphreak · Aug 25, 2013

Easton33 said:
There are thousands of 18 year old men and woman protecting the sovereignty of this nation and your individual freedom. They are shooting people, being shot at, watching friends being blown up, etc.. and this discussion is about a coach yelling at a player that is between 18 and 21? The lesson is far past being learned if they can't handle a dressing down from a coach. Princess turns into ballplayer at the dugout. Nobody better yell at my princess, but by all means get my ballplayer lined out.

Well, thankfully, we haven't reached the point where armed forces are required to protect college athletes. Some of those soldiers you mentioned would not tolerate some of the coaches we've heard about.

If a coach isn't skilled enough to coach without beating down a player then it's the coach that needs the training.

Easton33 · Aug 25, 2013

Lollipops and cotton candy. Let's just stop keeping score because it upsets little Sally when she sees we lost another. Ok kids, go get where you want to play ans we will start. Outlaw sliding for a 1 step rule. Sliding is dangerous, masks for everyone on the field, and a counselor in the dugout in case someone gets traumatized cause blue called third strike.

softballphreak · Aug 25, 2013

Easton33 said:
Lollipops and cotton candy. Let's just stop keeping score because it upsets little Sally when she sees we lost another. Ok kids, go get where you want to play ans we will start. Outlaw sliding for a 1 step rule. Sliding is dangerous, masks for everyone on the field, and a counselor in the dugout in case someone gets traumatized cause blue called third strike.

Or have coaches model the behavior of some of the best coaches mentioned in previous posts!

Madsofball · Aug 25, 2013

Amy in AZ. said:
How many of you posting here, about how women should feel, are female? Obviously, this case has had a lasting effect on these women, for it to be brought up this much later.

Amy -- I would never post about how women should FEEL. I think it is irrelevant. Granted, men and women are quite different, and that is a great thing. I want my DD to be an independent woman capable of dong ANYTHING she WANTS to do in her life. How she would feel about a coach being "verbally abusive" toward her versus how a boy would feel doesn't matter. Equality is a very special thing. She doesn't need to be treated differently based on how she FEELS as a woman. Her emotional response to the things that happen in her life is her response and hers alone to own. I do not want there to be a "glass ceiling" for my DD, and I believe that no matter how well meaning we are that when we have different expectations about how people are effected by things based on their gender that we inadvertently put limits on them.

MountieSB · Aug 25, 2013

Easton33 said:
Lollipops and cotton candy. Let's just stop keeping score because it upsets little Sally when she sees we lost another. Ok kids, go get where you want to play ans we will start. Outlaw sliding for a 1 step rule. Sliding is dangerous, masks for everyone on the field, and a counselor in the dugout in case someone gets traumatized cause blue called third strike.

Patty Gasso, Mike Candrea, Sue Enquist, Ralph & Karen Weekly, and Patrick Murphy (to name a few) would disagree that treating players appropriately doesn't equate to having poor-performing players. Again, it doesn't mean they aren't demanding and don't expect full effort. It means they've treated players in such a way that the players are willing to work hard enough to reward them with meeting their high expectations of them. That's part of their winning formula.

I get tired of hearing about how treating players with class equates to "dumbing down" the game. Give me a break.

CoogansBluff · Aug 25, 2013

Madsofball said:
Amy -- I would never post about how women should FEEL. I think it is irrelevant. Granted, men and women are quite different, and that is a great thing. I want my DD to be an independent woman capable of dong ANYTHING she WANTS to do in her life. How she would feel about a coach being "verbally abusive" toward her versus how a boy would feel doesn't matter. Equality is a very special thing. She doesn't need to be treated differently based on how she FEELS as a woman. Her emotional response to the things that happen in her life is her response and hers alone to own. I do not want there to be a "glass ceiling" for my DD, and I believe that no matter how well meaning we are that when we have different expectations about how people are effected by things based on their gender that we inadvertently put limits on them.

Not sure what you're saying. On one hand, you say that men and women are quite different. But on the other, you say that having different expectations of them puts limits on them.

There are certainly examples of what you say in your last sentence. If we don't expect that girls can do things athletically than boys can do, we hold them back. Similarly, if we think that boys won't respond to a coach who doesn't yell their disgust at them, we are limiting boys.

But I don't think that this applies to this case. I don't see how Indiana's softball players will be limited if the coach agrees not to ''berate her players one-by-one, leaning in to yell in their faces,'' even if it came about because of a stereotype about how it might affect female student-athletes.

Amy in AZ. · Aug 25, 2013

It is no big deal. They are only Hoosiers. Amy (Illini fan)

sluggers · Aug 25, 2013

First, I don't believe in yelling at the players. But, what she said was not bad. I wouldn't have done it, but that is just me...and I'm not going to lose my job if a 20 year old kid muffs a grounder. It is hard for me to be too critical.

By the way, this is what Wooden said:

I never yelled at my players much. That would have been artificial stimulation, which doesn’t last very long. I think it’s like love and passion. Passion won’t last as long as love. When you are dependent on passion, you need more and more of it to make it work. It’s the same with yelling.

He did not say he didn't yell at his players. And, I suspect, his ACs did yell at the players.

What I don't get is that sports is supposed to get people ready for the real world where people compete for money. Yet, for some reason, people want to protect their DDs from "real" competition.

Does anyone really believe at the top levels of corporations (i.e., CEO level) that they don't yell at their immediate reports? In the world of high stakes business, CEOs scream at their subordinates for screwing up.

Gordon Ramsey (Kitchen Nightmares) is like the normal CEO...except with more manners. Steve Jobs, Bill Gates, Donald Trump...you name them. They were relentless if someone made a mistake.

And, as to women in senior leadership positions in corporations: They are not "kinder and gentler".

MountieSB · Aug 25, 2013

sluggers said:
First, I don't believe in yelling at the players. But, what she said was not bad. I wouldn't have done it, but that is just me...and I'm not going to lose my job if a 20 year old kid muffs a grounder. It is hard for me to be too critical.

By the way, this is what Wooden said:

I never yelled at my players much. That would have been artificial stimulation, which doesn’t last very long. I think it’s like love and passion. Passion won’t last as long as love. When you are dependent on passion, you need more and more of it to make it work. It’s the same with yelling.

He did not say he didn't yell at his players. And, I suspect, his ACs did yell at the players.

What I don't get is that sports is supposed to get people ready for the real world where people compete for money. Yet, for some reason, people want to protect their DDs from "real" competition.

Does anyone really believe at the top levels of corporations (i.e., CEO level) that they don't yell at their immediate reports? In the world of high stakes business, CEOs scream at their subordinates for screwing up.

Gordon Ramsey (Kitchen Nightmares) is like the normal CEO...except with more manners. Steve Jobs, Bill Gates, Donald Trump...you name them. They were relentless if someone made a mistake.

And, as to women in senior leadership positions in corporations: They are not "kinder and gentler".

These student-athletes aren't in high stakes positions as softball players, though. The coach is a representative of the institution and its ideals. For a softball coach to go off (and not just in the IU case) in a profanity-laced tirade is inappropriate. More of these players (and a great deal of the general population) are going to be involved in professions where civil discourse is the preferred method of communication.

In the book Mindset by Carol Dweck, there is a very compelling chapter about coaches and their behavior. It shows the pros and cons of the approaches of two coaches, (which ironically happen to be) IU's Bobby Knight and John Wooden. I would imagine Bobby Knight's actions at IU didn't give the AD for this softball coach much rope.

Tirade by Indiana softball coach forces university to investigate line between motiva

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