"Me before Team" A downward spiral.

Onegameonelove12 said:

This is one of my biggest qualms with TB these days. There's no inter-squad competition anymore. Players used to have to flight and improve to acquire a starting role on a team. Now, kids just switch teams in order to get satisfactory playing time. So many teams have been started because someones' daughter wasn't starting. Now there are so many teams out there, that it's diluting the talent does exist. I was a player who played for one team my entire travel ball career, and I wasn't always a starter. I learned and developed from having to prove myself. I'm certain it has contributed to my work ethic and determination as an adult.

Research proves that team commitment and sacrifice are indicators of success (winning) but I'm not sure that's what should be focused on. Yes, winning is important. However, I think it comes as a natural by product if a coach focuses on truly developing his players physically and mentally. A coach should focus on instilling the right mentalities, like always giving your best effort. Instead of always trying to win. You will always win some and lose some in the game of softball, but what is most important is players develop the skills they need to succeed in life.

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And why so much emphasis on developing the right mentality, the best effort, skill development, etc.? Because you're trying to win! Trying to win a game is the goal; as a result the player wins, whether they win or lose the game. But trying to win the game is the catalyst.

softballphreak said:

And why so much emphasis on developing the right mentality, the best effort, skill development, etc.? Because you're trying to win! Trying to win a game is the goal; as a result the player wins, whether they win or lose the game. But trying to win the game is the catalyst.

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That's where I strongly disagree. It's not about winning. It's about developing players for the real world. Winning is a short term goal, and only offers short term success. This is why the focus should be on developing the right mentality.

Intrinsic vs. Extrinsic motivation.

softballphreak said:

All other things being equal, it IS all about winning!

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No, it's not with some of the 18u and 16u teams...it's about showcasing individual players and skills to get that college scholarship.

Case in point - when parents at that level post on this board asking about tournaments, what is one of the first questions....

"How many college coaches will be there?"

Ajaywill said:

No, it's not with some of the 18u and 16u teams...it's about showcasing individual players and skills to get that college scholarship.

Case in point - when parents at that level post on this board asking about tournaments, what is one of the first questions....

"How many college coaches will be there?"

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I agree with that. But that's another issue. I understand the logic behind showcase but I really don't like it! And just about every tournament nowadays want to call themselves a showcase.

softballphreak said:

I agree with that. But that's another issue. I understand the logic behind showcase but I really don't like it! And just about every tournament nowadays want to call themselves a showcase.

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I agree completely, with these so called showcases 1:30 drop dead games how can you teach a team to win? there is no bottom of the 7th have to have a run to tie or go ahead or have to make a play to hold a lead with a runner on 2nd or 3rd......

re: showcases -

Playing devil's advocate here, does it really matter that there is no winner and loser in showcases? Do we think that players are going to college not knowing how to compete because of showcases? If so, wouldn't college coaches object to the format of showcases? Has any coach ever said, 'We need these games to count, to mean something, otherwise we don't know what kind of competitors they are?' Or do coaches see all they need to see if the players' effort and talent they display in a non-counting game?

As for life's lessons, haven't these girls who are 16-17-18 played hundreds of games and probably over 50 tournaments where there were winners and losers? Don't most of them compete on their high school teams? Living in the U.S., which is a hypercompetitive society, do they need more lessons on how to compete? They compete for spots on the team. They compete for positions on the field, for place in the batting order. They compete for grades in school. Are we overreacting when we think that they are missing out on this opportunity for a life's lesson when they play a showcase and the score doesn't matter so much?

CoogansBluff said:

re: showcases -

Playing devil's advocate here, does it really matter that there is no winner and loser in showcases? Do we think that players are going to college not knowing how to compete because of showcases? If so, wouldn't college coaches object to the format of showcases? Has any coach ever said, 'We need these games to count, to mean something, otherwise we don't know what kind of competitors they are?' Or do coaches see all they need to see if the players' effort and talent they display in a non-counting game?

As for life's lessons, haven't these girls who are 16-17-18 played hundreds of games and probably over 50 tournaments where there were winners and losers? Don't most of them compete on their high school teams? Living in the U.S., which is a hypercompetitive society, do they need more lessons on how to compete? They compete for spots on the team. They compete for positions on the field, for place in the batting order. They compete for grades in school. Are we overreacting when we think that they are missing out on this opportunity for a life's lesson when they play a showcase and the score doesn't matter so much?

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Competing and winning to me are two different things. To compete in a game albeit whatever position can be done without winning anything. Just because you can compete for a spot on a team doesn't mean you will win a game as a team or an individual. Ive seen the best teams play and defensively they still miss cutoffs, hold the ball in the outfield, not know what to do with the ball on a base hit with a runner at second base etc. and offensively swinging for the fences when you need a base hit or trying to pull an outside pitch when you need to take the ball the other way or hit behind the runner and I believe it has a lot to do with coaches not teaching it because there is no winning and losing. Hell our own coach says he probably loses a game or two every summer because he is more concerned with getting everyone of the girls equal playing time over winning games because his sole purpose is to get every kid on the team recruited. and I know hes not the only coach that does this..... and I have heard of college coaches tell our recruiting coordinator that they wish they would have a set number of innings played so there would be a winner and a loser but they understand why they don't. just my 2 cents

CoogansBluff said:

Playing devil's advocate here, does it really matter that there is no winner and loser in showcases? Do we think that players are going to college not knowing how to compete because of showcases? If so, wouldn't college coaches object to the format of showcases? Has any coach ever said, 'We need these games to count, to mean something, otherwise we don't know what kind of competitors they are?'

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Ask Candrea. He's made the point that college players these days don't know how to win and points to the current status of youth travel ball as a contributing factor.

PA SB Dad said:

Ask Candrea. He's made the point that college players these days don't know how to win and points to the current status of youth travel ball as a contributing factor.

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I don't have Candrea's number. Can you find an article where he discusses this? Not disagreeing with you. But would like to hear his thoughts.

If I did talk w/ Candrea, I'd ask - What is it that college players are missing? What do they not know about winning? Do the not play hard enough? Are they not willing to sacrifice enough (too selfish)? Do they not want to win badly enough?