Piggyback question - How do you determine if your DD is in the top 9??

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Aug 6, 2013
392
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So I was reading the thread where a parent explained that dd was picked up for a team and was told the roster would stay at 10/11 - but then coach decides to have a roster of 14 and the dd sits. One of the responses was the question - "is your daughter one of the top 9?"

My question is - how do you determine that? My husband and I have been having this discussion for a while now and I would love other opinions.

Background - 12U team. Our team does keep Game Changer - however, it was also brought to my attention on this board that our team is also probably not scoring the game's correctly (solely based on the wp vs pb thread). I am the second string (lol) scorekeeper and was trained by one of the asst. coaches on how to score games. Most of how we score is based on our feelings. Whether that play was an error or not could change from play to play - we are not by the book. Overall I do think the glaring errors are accounted for but there are probably a lot of hits that honestly probably aren't real HITS if you know what I mean. I do try to have another person sitting with me (usually my dh) to help me with scoring errors and hits - it does help to get another perspective on plays and honestly he knows so much more than me in that regard since he played baseball up through college.

So - with that said - my husband believes that coaching decisions should be made solely based on stats. He thinks a coach should be looking at mainly the stats to determine playing time. Second to stats is attitude and hustle. He hates when I bring up that I think the coach is trying to develop certain players into a position based on the potential the coach sees. It drives him batty. He says that since dd's team plays league that would be the development time - but when it is tournament time the best 9 (based on stats) should be on the field and the others with lower stats should be the one's that sit/sub more.

Thoughts? Opinions?
 
Jun 27, 2011
5,089
0
North Carolina
At what point do you start using stats to determine the lineup? After the first game? The first tournament? When do they become meaningful?

What stats are you using to determine the best hitters? Batting average? On-base average? The coach and your husband might have disagreements about which stats are more meaningful.

How do you use stats to rate players defensively?

Coaches should certainly consider statistics when making lineups, but good coaches will consider lots of things, such as the player's history in a previous season, how they perform in practice, attitude, etc. In the end, it's the coach's call. It's hard for parents to be objective. My own DD has been in both situations, where she batted higher and lower than where her stats would put her. Doesn't matter to me or her, as long as she's in there somewhere.
 
Jun 11, 2012
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The best 9 batters or the best 9 fielders? Because the two are not always the same.

On DD's HS team the best 9 fielders are the starters. Of these I'd say 7 of them are in the top 9 for batting. But honestly, there is so much more than straight stats that goes into those decisions.
 
Nov 26, 2010
4,784
113
Michigan
the kid who never moves her feet might have a fielding percentage of 1.000, while the kid who gets to every thing might have a fielding percentage of .930. The first kid might only have 35 assists during the year but the second one might have 125. Which is better? Obviously the one who gets to more balls, meanwhile the parents of kid #1 will say my kid is a better SS because she made no errors all year.

Sometimes you have to use your eyes to determine who is the top. Even in batting, if a back up player only gets to hit against the other teams #3 pitcher and hits 390, how can you compare that to the kid who always bats against the top pitchers and she bats 380? Do statistics help, sure, but you also need to use what you see and what you know. What if you have 5 good hitters who are slow and can't play infield at all. Do you sit the defensive wiz you have a shortstop to put a pylon into the game?

Some people use statistics the way a drunk used a streetlamp, for support rather then illumination.
 
Aug 6, 2013
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Is it hard for coaches to be objective as well though? That is what my husband thinks. He feels that the coach is coaching from her heart and not her head. Of course I tell him that if he doesn't like it he should coach..... not a good idea for anyone of course and since he travels it would be impossible.

He thinks that defensive errors and fielding % should be determined when placing the girls in their positions - that is his main issue - the defensive side of the game for the team.

The coach does a good job with batting based on stats. She is also a hitting coach though so that is expected. It does tend to bother dh that there are a couple of girls with batting averages of .200 or below that are still hitting since we hit roster - is that the baseball in him? or is he just a hard rear?
 
Jun 11, 2013
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113
Most coaches look at stats to some degree, but when I'm asked to help make a lineup for Sunday I first have to figure out how I am going to play defense. On our team last year we had a player who struggled some weeks hitting, but there was no chance she wasn't going to catch on big games on Sunday. There are of course a couple of players that also you have to get in because of their bats. It may require a DP/Flex but they will get in.

It's hard to measure defense at this level. There are intangibles like this OF always backs up every play. I know that I won't lose the game because she decided to stand around on a ground ball.

Over time, stats help but for the most part if you look objectively you have an idea how well your plays. Is she a good or great fielder. Is she a really good hitter or just the same as the bottom 6 players? Where stats help is that sometimes you have a kid who doesn't do anything spectacular all weekend but you look back and she had 4 walks and a few sacs and some normal hits versus the kid who hit 3 long triples but you see went 3-15.

Having 14 kids is too many at 12U. I would have a problem with the coaching doing what he did. The tough thing about being on the bottom of a team is that it can be hard to get back to the top. If you only get up 4 times a weekend the pressure on the kid is tremendous. She needs to really shine in practice and in games to move up.
 
Oct 11, 2010
8,337
113
Chicago, IL
I am not a stats person, never have been.

So much more goes into it then that.

DD can be #1 if she is not playing probably time to move on. If she is #14 and plays we are staying.

Imo, it is so easy to trick up stats.
 
Aug 6, 2013
392
63
Adding - he does watch the same games as me and I will say - there are girls who make an enormous amount of errors every game and are still in the same positions. I often tell my kids that the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results (they hate it when I do that to them). Then we watch games and the same girls are making the same errors in the same positions over and over again. Of course - there are flashes of brilliance but they are few and far between.

Next question - which stats are the important one's in relation to fielding?
 
Jun 12, 2015
3,848
83
I love the numbers. I keep iScore as accurately as I can because I think the stats are fun. They're just part of the big picture though, like that FP example. IMO attitude, effort, and being coachable matter as well. On most teams there are at least a few girls who are clearly top 9 without having to really look at anything, IME. Beyond that I think it's a combo of factors which, unfortunately for some kids, also includes how their parents behave.
 

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