Rec league and TB team?

The only reason my DD's will play rec again is if they need mound time and really I would only do it to develop my youngest DD. Having coached rec for 3 seasons and TB for 2, I can tell you from experience there are a lot of problems with the scenario you described.
1) Expectations - Rec ball parents like to think that their DD's are all-stars (heck I did when mine were in) however, few take the time to work with them and expect the coach to work miracles. Few rec ball coaches (in my experience) have very much softball coaching experience, nor do they desire to obtain it. They are usually dads and moms that step up because no one else wants to. So you have inexperienced coaches trying to teach girls, who may or may not want to be there, the game of softball. All while trying to be competitive and win (because thats what the parents want regardless of what they say, is for their DD's to be on a winning team). I know, I coached 3 seasons of rec ball and dealt with more drama than I care to ever experience again. I personally loved coaching these girls, the ones that wanted to be there and I turned my teams in to competitive teams without screaming and yelling at them. However I always got "stuck" with 1-3 girls whose parents used SB as a babysitting service or an "exercise program". Drop the kids off and go run errands and don't return until 30 min after the practice or games are over. Those girls didn't want to be there, it showed and it affected the other team members. In TB, the girls all want to be there. That is your first hurdle.

2) The finer things in life - Once you reach the All-Star level in rec ball you need to move on. Once you have tasted steak why settle for ground beef? Keeping your DD's on rec ball teams when they are the better players can actually hurt their development. My DD's could throw really hard (not just pitching, but overhand throwing as well). Due to the rec "fairness" rules, everyone had to be rotated in the infield and had to play at every positon (except P and C) for a minimum of 2 innings. Sometimes my better girls would field the ball come up firing only to have to reduce the velocity of the throws because someone was at 1st who couldn't catch well. Playing down weakens their skill level and impacts their growth. If they didn't reduce the velocity, then the inexperienced girls got hurt.

3) I currently coach 2 travel teams and some of my parents of the younger squad have them doing both. This is their 1st year in TB. They said they are done with rec after this season. They get more experience in our practices and in one weekend of a tournament than they get in a whole season of rec ball. Plus you are with more girls who want to be there and can actually handle your throws. The girls on this team have improved rapidly since we started.

4) I get the community angle, but with most rec leagues I have worked with, they are not as serious about developing softball as they are about baseball. In baseball they separate out the "better" boys and have a league for them, but not for softball. Lump all the girls of the same age together. Draft who shows up for tryouts and hat pick the ones that weren't able to be there on skills day. Does your rec league bring in pitching coaches? Do they mandate that coaches learn the proper way to teach throwing, hitting, baserunning, etc.? Or do they just let Joe/Jane Volunteer teach them any old way that they want? And that usually involves an overweight coach hitting balls to them in a field. I have coached rec leagues in different states. I only had 1, and it was a small community rec league, that actually brought in a pitching coach to teach all of the coaches some things to get the girls started on. They also held a skills camp and taught the girls how to do different skills.

5) Knowledge of the rules and game. I can remember the first time in rec I had my girls run to second on a walk. The parents didn't understand why I always had my girls running on walks anyways. The parents of the other team (and the coaches too) were saying that you only get one base on a walk (the 4th ball was a passed ball and the C was lazily getting up and getting to the ball). So my DD was already at 2nd by the time the C returned the ball to the P. They were upset when the blue let it stand. Or the time my DD took advantage of the uncaught third strike (or dropped 3rd strike) rule. My DD had 2 strikes on her and 1 ball. A really high pitch came in (she was sure was going to be way over the C's head) and my DD swung, purposely missed and took off running for 1st. The rec parents kept yelling "She's out! She's out! She struck out!!". I looked at the blue and said "Dropped 3rd strike blue." He nodded and smiled a great big smile and left her on 1st. Most TB parents know the rules (or learn them quickly) while most rec parents AND coaches never take the time to learn the rule book. Also when you use the "Rec House rules" to your advantage, teams and parents get mad because they don't know them well enough. As coaches, my wife and I made sure we knew how to teach these girls. We bought videos and learned how to teach them the correct ways. I read the rule books weekly to understand them. I read the case scenarios. I read the Babe Ruth, NFHS, NSA, USSSA, ASA rule books to make sure I was doing the right things as a coach. Not many coaches in the rec leagues will do that, and they fail their community in trying to coach something they know little about. Or heaven forbid, trying to teach softball players baseball methods.

So if she is already the cream of the crop, then it is time to move on. Finish out the rec season if you have already started it. The most perfect example I use came to me one year in T-Ball. Our rec T-ball league went from 4-8 years old, so you could have a 4yo on the same team with an 8 yo. This one boy on the opposing team was 8, probably getting ready to turn 9, if he hadn't already. He had played T-ball for 4 years in the league. He was always his teams last batter as the last batter got to run around the bases until a base in front of them was tagged (yes this league counted runs, wins and losses in T-Ball!). He could hit the ball to the fence and sometimes over it (they had that portable fence moved in so the little ones wouldn't have to run so far). He was getting absolutely nothing developmentally out of being there as he wasn't being challenged in the least, BUT HE WAS THE KING OF T-BALL!!!!!!!!

I never understood why, as a parent, you would want your son or DD to be the king of t-ball when it was obvious they were not growing their skills anymore. That is what is happening. Your DD is at the top of the pool of players. Ask your DXH why does he think the girls want to move on? He will probably find that the girls were tired of being the king of t-ball. they wanted to be challenged more and play with other girls that have the same desire and willingness to work harder and keep getting better. They are tired of the walk-a-thons so common in rec ball. They are tired of being lumped in with girls that don't want to be there.

They are ready to take their game TO THE NEXT LEVEL. i think the example of a 7th grader repeating the 5th grade is a good example. Yes you could redo the 5th grade, you would exceed at it, perhaps even be the Valedictorian, but you would still have a 7th grade education. You would be no more better prepared for 8th grade than you were a year before, except you might have an overestimated sense of your abilities to compete with 8th graders.

As a 40ish fellow now, when I was growing up, there was very, very little travel ball in my area. When my wife approached me about travel ball 3 years ago, I, as their rec coach, wanted NO part of it. I knew very little of it, and what I knew, I was misinformed about. Possibly this is a similar scenario.

On top of this, we don't know all the ins and outs of this relationship....custody arrangements, etc. Maybe dad gets his girl every other weekend and he spends time with her like this....maybe not, but the premise is still the same....at the very least, it is a way for dad to be a "hero" to his daughter and to teach her something that he genuinely may have a good grasp of. And just when he is beginning his tutelage, it is taken out from under him. I'm not in his shoes, but I can only imagine how that would feel being a full time dad. Much less one who isn't able to be in that same roll (no disrespect meant to our single mothers/fathers). Maybe, just maybe, this is a case of a father who genuinely loves his daughter and sees this for something much bigger than softball. We're mostly ignoring this aspect of it. Yes, I know he will get more time in at home one on one. But he's not "coach" in that realm. He's not the "hero" that he may think his daughter looks up to more....

CJ D said:

As a 40ish fellow now, when I was growing up, there was very, very little travel ball in my area. When my wife approached me about travel ball 3 years ago, I, as their rec coach, wanted NO part of it. I knew very little of it, and what I knew, I was misinformed about. Possibly this is a similar scenario.

On top of this, we don't know all the ins and outs of this relationship....custody arrangements, etc. Maybe dad gets his girl every other weekend and he spends time with her like this....maybe not, but the premise is still the same....at the very least, it is a way for dad to be a "hero" to his daughter and to teach her something that he genuinely may have a good grasp of. And just when he is beginning his tutelage, it is taken out from under him. I'm not in his shoes, but I can only imagine how that would feel being a full time dad. Much less one who isn't able to be in that same roll (no disrespect meant to our single mothers/fathers). Maybe, just maybe, this is a case of a father who genuinely loves his daughter and sees this for something much bigger than softball. We're mostly ignoring this aspect of it. Yes, I know he will get more time in at home one on one. But he's not "coach" in that realm. He's not the "hero" that he may think his daughter looks up to more....

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So...what happened? Did you continue to coach rec? Did your DD play TB, both? Do you now have a different opinion about TB? If so, what changed your mind? DXH has made some comments to allude to exactly what you described. I'm still hopeful that he will eventually get over being mad at me and open himself up to the idea that this too could be an enjoyable and bonding experience for them. In the end though, I will do what it is my daughter wishes to do. And right now she says it is both. She wants that competitive vibe and challenge to be a better player (and have more fun than the typical walk-fest that has been fallball this year) as well as time on the field with her father and current team and schoolmates.

@cmustangsfp "Does your rec league bring in pitching coaches? Do they mandate that coaches learn the proper way to teach throwing, hitting, baserunning, etc.? Or do they just let Joe/Jane Volunteer teach them any old way that they want?" They do rely on volunteers. DXH is one of those. In his defense, he does research alot of drills and there have been many parents that have said he is one of the best coaches they've had. The girls love him and he is frequently requested as the coach when signups are taken. I told him he should be proud that he has sparked a love of the game in so many girls, so much so that they are looking for more ways to play the game. He still sees it as an insult. Granted, these parents (myself included) have only rec league volunteer coaches to compare him to.

"I never understood why, as a parent, you would want your son or DD to be the king of t-ball when it was obvious they were not growing their skills anymore. That is what is happening. Your DD is at the top of the pool of players. Ask your DXH why does he think the girls want to move on? He will probably find that the girls were tired of being the king of t-ball. they wanted to be challenged more and play with other girls that have the same desire and willingness to work harder and keep getting better. They are tired of the walk-a-thons so common in rec ball." Agreed. Again, hoping for a revelation when he is faced with her actually doing it.

imnobrn said:

So...what happened? Did you continue to coach rec? Did your DD play TB, both? Do you now have a different opinion about TB? If so, what changed your mind? DXH has made some comments to allude to exactly what you described. I'm still hopeful that he will eventually get over being mad at me and open himself up to the idea that this too could be an enjoyable and bonding experience for them. In the end though, I will do what it is my daughter wishes to do. And right now she says it is both. She wants that competitive vibe and challenge to be a better player (and have more fun than the typical walk-fest that has been fallball this year) as well as time on the field with her father and current team and schoolmates.

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Well, that year, my oldest played TB and rec. My youngest played rec only. They were on the same team. We went undefeated in rec, but the TB team was very weak. The next year, both played TB only. I got involved wih coaching the TB team that year with my oldest. My youngest played on a buddy's team. This year, both only play TB on the same team. They joke about wanting to play rec because they would be able to hit home runs every game. Not because they are hitting the balls 250 feet, but because the rec league is so poor. They eventually come back to reality and want no part of it. They realize it will actually hurt them more then help them.

Not sure what really changed my mind. Maybe just being at the park. I love spending weekends at the park now. That's all we do for 9 months out of the year. Lol. But I can't help but feel that if my wife who I am still with had brought it to me and suggested that they not play rec that year, that my feelings wouldn't have been extremely hurt. While I do have a son who is young, there is a ton to be said about a father who wants to introduce his daughter to sports and be there to coach them and help them. Daddy ball. Maybe not daddy ball in the taboo way it is talked about on here, but daddy ball nonetheless. And there isnt a dad on here who coaches his daughters who doesn't feel that way, at least for the first couple/few years of their playing lives.

Now, Not that that is what you are doing is trying to weed her away from him, but he may feel it is in the cards for the next year or so. I at least had the safety net of being able to tell her "no", and while I'm not a controlling type at all with my family, we do respect each other's wishes. Doesn't sound as though y'all have quite the same situation, but I wouldn't presume that at all.

Best thing I can say is that she needs to tell him. Not you. Her. She also needs to reassure him that she wants to play for him. And if TB is all she wants to play next year, tell her to get him along for the ride. It won't take him long, at her age, and if he is level headed, to realize that he can only take her so far. No matter how much he knows, how much he studies, how many drills he has. There ail come a time, usually @ 14u, that he steps back and says "I think I may enjoy this more sitting behind the backstop".

Getting into this one late, but make sure your rec league will allow you to do both, many leagues don't. If they od, travel ball is great but it isn't for everyone, and doing both takes a lot of time. You don't want to just show up for either team and take PT from someone, even if your D is the better player. Whomever loses out on PT will resent your DD, as will their parents, etc. If your DD knows the commitment required for travel ball, has the skills, and really wants to play 5-6 days a week TB is for you. If she can stand 6-7 days of softball per day, understands she will miss out on some other activities and is fine with that, both might work. But you're really pushing the limits of what most kids can handle.

Also, has your DXH ever been to a TB tournament? Has he seen first hand what he despises so much? Once he goes and sees the level these girls are playing at, maybe he will see how much better it is than rec. I too love being at the ballfield for the weekend. I enjoy seeing my girls play in a more competitive arena. I love seeing how much better they are then they would have been if they stayed in rec. I too miss coaching rec because of the player development, so what did I do? Started my own TB teams. I was successful at player development in the rec leagues so I took it to the next level. I still get the satisfaction of coaching, but now I have a group of girls that ACTUALLY ALL want to be there! They want to get better, all of them. I don't have to take time coddling the one that doesn't want to be there. I don't have to push the one that doesn't want to be pushed. I do feel sorry for those girls, as I know I have made a difference in some of their lives. But I can't stay down and rescue those girls at the expense of my own. Which it was becoming. I tried turning my girls over to other TB coaches while still coaching rec, but some of the TB coaches were nothing more than former rec coaches that promoted themselves to TB coaches without taking the time to elevate their game. Perhaps when my girls get older and are out on their own, I will go back and coach rec for the fun of it.
Here is an example of why I feel sad for these girls: We have 2 TB teams that my wife and I coach. We went to the local rec league fields to look at the combined 12U/14U teams and the 16U teams to see if we could find these girls that were wanting to elevate their level of play. In one of the 12U/14U games the first inning took over an hour to play. We left when it was 15-8 and the 1st inning was still going. It wasn't much better at the 16U level. Disappointing to see the girls struggling so bad. Disappointing to see girls who had not been taught to throw or catch properly. Disappointing to see that only one team out of 4 had a pitcher that could get it across the plate, and she was a TB pitcher who wasn't getting much mound time on her TB team.

Well...in dealing with some men, my own dh included, (sorry guys!!), I have noticed that it's better for them to come up with the idea (even though you brought it up before). They need to come to the conclusion on their own. However, unfortunately for you, your DXH's ego is huge and very blinding to him. Of course, he's going to take whatever you say/suggest to him offensively because he thinks it is an attack on his coaching skills and time with DD. So I think that your DD needs to work on dad, and maybe even ask him to take her to TB tournament...just out of curiosity and for fun. Don't mention another word about TB...if your daughter's heart is in this, she will win. I bet the pieces will fall into place.

Another suggestion is when DD asks to go to a TB tournament, find out where his former players went (the ones that left for TB)...maybe if he saw the level that his former players are at, he will see the light (on his own).

Good luck!!

BTW, my DD at one point did play Fall rec ball and TB. While it was fun, it was also pretty hard to juggle the practices, games, lessons, school, etc. I know that most All Stars will not allow players who are also on TB teams...depends on what rules they follow (around here it's ASA).

Knowing what I know now, I wouldn't do rec and TB at the same time. Too much commitment and difficult to juggle schedules. Plus there are some significant differences between the two. I'm also concerned with the number of games these kids play. Don't agree that adding another 15 or so games to the schedule, plus practices, etc. is necessary.

So if she is already the cream of the crop, then it is time to move on. Finish out the rec season if you have already started it. The most perfect example I use came to me one year in T-Ball. Our rec T-ball league went from 4-8 years old, so you could have a 4yo on the same team with an 8 yo. This one boy on the opposing team was 8, probably getting ready to turn 9, if he hadn't already. He had played T-ball for 4 years in the league. He was always his teams last batter as the last batter got to run around the bases until a base in front of them was tagged (yes this league counted runs, wins and losses in T-Ball!). He could hit the ball to the fence and sometimes over it (they had that portable fence moved in so the little ones wouldn't have to run so far). He was getting absolutely nothing developmentally out of being there as he wasn't being challenged in the least, BUT HE WAS THE KING OF T-BALL!!!!!!!!

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We have U13 tball here. (Not a typo) One of my workmates son is 9 and playing tball and is really good. She's going to let him keep playing tball as he enjoys it. I just shook my head and walked away. I played my last year of tball at nine and hated it. I was playing player pitch too and that challenged me, tball was boring. Pulling off a triple play every game and home runs every bat was boring. (Hilariously I didn't get best and fairest that year. Apparently the scorer gave it on who had the best improvement. Because I was hitting home runs every time and making every play with ease, I wasn't 'improving' therefore got no point each week)