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Mar 2, 2009
311
16
Suffolk, VA
ok, so this is a GREAT example of how I think all of us are abusing the sport. Baseball is no different. I live and breath Softball. I TIVO games not only to watch, but at times to slowmo for teaching aspects. I attend clinics and talk softball much of my week.....
** THAT SAID... TOO MUCH PRESSURE and FAR too much time is invested in today's sports. A sport is a SPORT AND at young ages you have to believe is probably played till 17-18 for many and for most no later then 22sh.....
I still believe Family comes before any sport and I've been fortunate enough to coach with coaches that agree, one week in the summer, even missing one tourny is absolutly ok.... I love the fact the athlete can spend family time and the week break is good for her anyway! (Now coordinating vacations around College ball schedules is understood, but 10U thru 16U - let the kids spend time w/ their FAMILY!)

** Too many coaches and parents are NOW acting as if Softball/Baseball is PRIORITY...... WRONG..... grades in school, family, their religion.... those are all more important.
** SIMPLE TEST.. WHO agrees our players should miss a test in school? should miss Confirmation?, should miss a family wedding/funeral or family member in the hospital????
THOSE are IMPORTANT things in life and those Social skills and priorities should be CLEARLY understand over any sport...........
---I wish we could get parents and coaches to put the sports back in perspective and insist on priorities - one to two weeks in the summer to spend family time is fine.....
(Well managed teams usually coordinate with parents when making tourny schedules and this alleviates most issues.)
 
Sep 6, 2009
393
0
State of Confusion
Ive never seen a coach that didnt stress that grades were first. By the time they are 14U players, the girls have heard repeatedly that if you want a chance to play collegiate ball, you MUST have good grades too.

Likewise, family obligations come first as well. Weddings, births, funerals, birthdays, anniversaries, etc.

Thats why a travel team carries 14 players, when they only need maybe 10.

But, I dont know any girls that want to miss ANY of their season. They love it. They love travelling all over the US playing softball with their teammates. Colorado, Oklahoma, Nationals, etc. They have no intention of going 1000+ miles just to sit the bench either.

Believe it or not, it is amazing family together quality time. It is awesome. I cant imagine someone wanting to take a week out of the season to do something else! Lay on a beach? camp? go to freaking disney world? You can do those things AFTER softball is over (if you have any $$$ left) .

I know people whose girls have grown up that still come fairly long distances to watch the teams/coaches that their daughters used to play for. They MISS it.
 
Mar 2, 2009
311
16
Suffolk, VA
.........there ABSOLUTELY are many players that have that love of the game and drive..... AND there are many girls that play for fun, socializing that don't take it as serious.... When my DD played, we did travel and enjoy and it was what we used to call our "MINI-VACATIONs".... she played for 2-3 teams a year and one season for 16U and a separate 18U travel team, she STILL travels w/ me to OKC every year for the College World Series, etc, so I understand OUR LOVE and commitment to the game,
but I've coached enough girls that my belief going into EVERY SEASON is to understand what girls are 100MPH into softball with College asperations and which ones are just playing to socialize cause they like the game and their friends, but do NOT want to play when they go to college..... some just want to play Co-Ed after HS, some are ok with being done with it....
**** I have a friend who didn't mean to to do this, BUT she did... she chased a girl away from softball.... she yelled at a 14 year old freshman on HS Varsity who went on a family planned vacation to the Caribean during Spring break (GAMES for us.. tourny!)... this girl felt she didn't get a break from the coach for the next 2 years and finally quite before her senior season..... this girl USED to come BACk into the school and to our facility after practices and work on throwing, fielding and batting... she used to swing a bat 100+X a day in off-season work, ran, did planned excersices and just loved softball... until she finally had enough of 2-3 years being treated harshly for taking a family vacation as a freshman!

So we agree, that's why its good to take 14 girls... various family/religious and school related events - let the kids enjoy family time 1-2 weeks a year and the other 50-51 weeks a yeare she can do softball.....
**** I LOVE SOFTBALL, so I get it, but I don't get the coaches taking it to extremes that they don't realize not EVERY girl has the same level of love and commitment to the game and MORE importantly that they prioritize their softball team/season over a young athlete being well rounded and having a strong family bond
 

Ken Krause

Administrator
Admin
May 7, 2008
3,911
113
Mundelein, IL
.........there ABSOLUTELY are many players that have that love of the game and drive..... AND there are many girls that play for fun, socializing that don't take it as serious.... When my DD played, we did travel and enjoy and it was what we used to call our "MINI-VACATIONs".... she played for 2-3 teams a year and one season for 16U and a separate 18U travel team, she STILL travels w/ me to OKC every year for the College World Series, etc, so I understand OUR LOVE and commitment to the game,
but I've coached enough girls that my belief going into EVERY SEASON is to understand what girls are 100MPH into softball with College asperations and which ones are just playing to socialize cause they like the game and their friends, but do NOT want to play when they go to college..... some just want to play Co-Ed after HS, some are ok with being done with it....
**** I have a friend who didn't mean to to do this, BUT she did... she chased a girl away from softball.... she yelled at a 14 year old freshman on HS Varsity who went on a family planned vacation to the Caribean during Spring break (GAMES for us.. tourny!)... this girl felt she didn't get a break from the coach for the next 2 years and finally quite before her senior season..... this girl USED to come BACk into the school and to our facility after practices and work on throwing, fielding and batting... she used to swing a bat 100+X a day in off-season work, ran, did planned excersices and just loved softball... until she finally had enough of 2-3 years being treated harshly for taking a family vacation as a freshman!

So we agree, that's why its good to take 14 girls... various family/religious and school related events - let the kids enjoy family time 1-2 weeks a year and the other 50-51 weeks a yeare she can do softball.....
**** I LOVE SOFTBALL, so I get it, but I don't get the coaches taking it to extremes that they don't realize not EVERY girl has the same level of love and commitment to the game and MORE importantly that they prioritize their softball team/season over a young athlete being well rounded and having a strong family bond

Right on, Jimginas! People who haunt forums are usually fanatical about the sport, and so they tend to believe that the only worthwhile goals in playing are to win an ASA National championship and to get a full ride scholarship to a top D1 college.

I don't believe that's true. The value of softball (or any sport) is playing for the love of the sport while striving to improve. There are a lot of girls who get a lot of the game without ever intending to play softball in college at any level, or winning an ASA National championship.

I am glad there are all these post-season tournaments (including ASA's) that give these kids a chance to play teams from other areas in an atmosphere that's a level above the usual local tournament. We've gone to those and the kids have had great, memorable experiences as a result.

I doubt too many elite players are fooled onto being on non-elite teams. If they are, shame on them. It's not that tough to figure out. Also shame on coaches who misrepresent what the team is about. If you're going to call your team elite, you best be seeking out other elite teams. To pretend to be elite because you're beating up on the locals who are just out to play some ball is a misservice to your own team as well as others.
 
Sep 6, 2009
393
0
State of Confusion
When you join a team you make a committment to the coach to be available to play when he needs to. Likewise, the coach makes a committment to the player that they are a part of his team for the season.

If you tell a coach far in advance you wont be available for x weeks in summer, it might not matter, or it might be a reason to select a different player for the team instead of your daughter.

Fall is one thing, the girls usually have other sports like volleyball going on. Usually have to ask who is available before scheduling tournaments, etc. Spring ball for those under HS age is iffy too, some girls play basketball, run track, etc. But everyone knows that May-Mid august is to be dedicated to play softball going into it, or shame on them if they didnt.

How would you feel if you looked forward to seeing your daughter playing a tournament, but then the coach told you not to come, he was bringing in another player to take her place that week? That is the equivalent of how you let HIM down when you choose to ignore your committment to him and do something else instead.

As stated before, school comes first, family obligations come first. But choosing to do something else optional instead during softball season shows a real lack of committment from the girl and the parents.

It will make a difference when tryouts come around again. It can be a reason to not be picked up for the team again. He wants only players he can depend on to be there when he needs them.

He is not paid for what he does, he spends a great deal of time, effort, and his own money as well to develop girls and give them a chance to play high level competion. It is a full time, year-round, unpaid second job for him. It really is a slap in his face when they choose to do something else other than play softball during softball season.

Again, if your only on a recreational team, or a mediocre local team that plays local tournaments, it probably wont matter.
 
Mar 2, 2009
311
16
Suffolk, VA
valid discussion....... appreciate your thoughts......, (( Are you east coast/West Coast, South or middle of the country.. I know strong opinions from west and southwest on this same topic..)) I think we agree that when we commit, you need to stick to that.... as stated earlier, we would coordinate with the parents when we first started our new season so we knew in advance if anyone was missing or whether just not to register for a tourny. HS varisty is tough on young players.. I hate HS games during Spring Break..... some people love them.....
I'm OK with players having other things going on during the season, as long as when we ask them to be at practice and to put extra work in when needed, they do.. ....I know when they are young they have other things they enjoy doing. (I want them at every practice or to make up practice of something critical made them miss, but I also look at the few times a player may miss a day of a tourny or the whole weekend as an opportunity to get the other players who don't get as much field time, some great experience.)
 
Sep 6, 2009
393
0
State of Confusion
A real issue is, during summertime practice may be tues, wed, thurs, travel friday, play sat, sun, travel home monday, etc. 3x week practice. At that point in the year, the basics are behind you and those 3 practices are probably 8-9 hrs or so in intensive specialty work, ..icing...the things that separate the losers from the winners at nationals. Specialty plays, detail work on things that have shown up as weak points, rundown situations, suicide squeeze, pickoffs, The more advanced the teams performance level is, the more specialized that practice time WILL be.

It is really the worst time to be missing practices on a very competitive team, and will put the girl at a disadvantage, as well as hold the team back in game situations. A coach needs to know that everyone has been trained sufficiently on a play before he calls it, shouldnt have to remember that he cant call a certain pick he wants because players x and y dont know it cause they decided to go to the beach last week.
 
Mar 2, 2009
311
16
Suffolk, VA
mudbug - I COMPLETELY understand and agree - when you are talking the high level competitive teams....... commitment is based on expectations and understanding everyone is putting in a good amount of time and money. For those high level teams where the players and parents understand the situation prior to "making a team", I absolutely agree. I've been part of a team that we worked 4-6 days a week and the commitment was understood...... I'll talk to that in a few secs. Actually with a team that is moving in that direction now too!)

Many teams are not competing at that level (teams with limited budgets, I see folks talking about spending $10K per year, almost every team I've coached or helped have individual player budgets of $500 fees to $1500 fees and 1-2 travels so approx less then $3K per year), limited players to draw from and limited facilities. (Best team I've coached with brought in our own pitching and catching coaches - $$$$, did varying clinics and spent money on equipment, we also had a very big facility, along with players that worked 4-6 days a week, year round, INCLUDING AFTER their HS practices which we asked them NOT to come, BUT they did, WITH their homework and THAT level of commitment is why we did so well. We played a Cal team and 2 Arizona teams in OKC and competed, but many teams here don't have the means to have that level of commitment. Doesn't mean east coast teams aren't getting there, we are, but its only the last 5-7 years that I see more and more teams working that hard. Thee are some OUTSTANDING teams around this region and its indicative of the quality coaching and work being put in the last 7sh years.)
 
Mar 2, 2009
311
16
Suffolk, VA
..............
I doubt too many elite players are fooled onto being on non-elite teams. If they are, shame on them. It's not that tough to figure out. Also shame on coaches who misrepresent what the team is about. If you're going to call your team elite, you best be seeking out other elite teams. To pretend to be elite because you're beating up on the locals who are just out to play some ball is a misservice to your own team as well as others.


Thanks Ken. I know I am strongly opinionated, though try to be open-minded as I KNOW there are plenty of coaches who are much more knowledgable then I am and have far more experience, though as you probably know.. MY PERSPECTIVE has always been about WHILE teaching the game and developing players to have opportunities, I feel STRONGLY that we are helping develop young ladies that hopefully will be productive, caring and honest citizens and many of them - Moms.
Its just how I feel about what I am doing. I will NEVER proclaim to be a great coach that knows it all; winning games is NOT most important to me..... the girls development and well being is.
 
Jun 6, 2009
240
0
I think the softball field is large enough to accomodate everyone. There is room for kids/parents who just want to go out and play a few games during the season and maybe a couple of local tournaments. There is also room for those who want to play at the highest level of competition. I think most of the problems arise when you confuse the two.

I confess I don't have much expierience with rec softball but I have seen enough of it to know that it gives the appearence of being a pleasurable experience for those that participate. I've seen alot of very competitve softball and it too was a great amount of fun.

I had the pleasure to coach a team that was lucky enough to place in the top 10 at the ASA nationals and it too was fun. I'm also aware of the sacrifices of the coaches/parents/families that it took to get there. I know that the teams that placed higher made even greater sacrifices in talent/money/organization/coaching/time etc. which is the point. I personaly didn't go around complaining about losing because the So. Cal. teams had better resources. That was just a fact. I take exception when people complain about lack of this or that or the other thing. If you play at the highest level you usually have to make the greatest sacrifices to win. If you want to have a shot at the top spot you have to be better at the things that the people at the top spot do. Simple fact of life.

If you go ask an Olympian/All-Aerican/top collegiate player, I would be willing to bet you would hear alot of stories how they missed high school dances/passed on trips to the coast/ cut short the funeral of a family member/time spent with non-softball friends.

As to the moral relevance of all that, I'll let others decide.

In the vernacular of the day, "It is what it is."
 

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