Wild Pitch into Dead ball area

[fastpitch]

Scenario:

Runner on 1st base. Runner stealing on release. Pitch is wild causing the ball to run across the backstop into other dugout. Runner has already reached 2nd while this has happened. Dead ball.

What base does the runner get?

Our ump gave the girl 3rd base saying she had 2b and since the ball rolled into dead ball area she gets 3b.

Is that correct?

 

[BretMan]

No, not correct.

A pitch that goes out of play is a one base award, governed by the base that the runner occupied at the time of the pitch. She was on first at the time of the pitch, so all she gets is second base.

 

[FPMark]

Why not? I guess I would think that the ball was still live when the runner got to 2nd and would advance to third because of the ball becomming "dead" when it entered the dugout. I may be wrong, but I would definately argue this in a game. Would it make any difference if the catcher touched the ball to become a passed ball verses wild pitch?

 

[Comp]

Because a pitched ball that goes into dead ball territory is a 1 base award from the base occupied at the time of pitch. Stealing or not, the runner was on 1st at the time of pitch, 2nd is all she gets.

 

[Amy in AZ.]

FPMark, Hi! Welcome to the board. I think that Bretman is certified in officiating in about every rules set. I have relied on him to give the correct answer to rules questions for about 5 years. He may have been mistaken once, but I can't remember it.

 

[BretMan]

Well, I'm not registered with every sanctioning body, because there are dozens of them out there!

This year I'm certified for: ASA, NSA and NFHS/high school softball, plus NFHS/high school baseball. This rule is the same for all of them and the same for all others I'm aware of.

All base awards for balls that go out of play, whether a pitched, thrown or batted ball, are based on the most likely outcome for the greatest number of circumstances. Most of the time, a pitch leaving the field will do so before any runners have advanced one base. And once the ball does become dead, runners can't advance further. Hence, the standard award is one base from the time of the pitch.

Sometimes, the ball becoming dead does prevent runners from advancing further than they might have otherwise. I've seen batters hit ground rule doubles and have to stop at second, when they may have had a triple if the ball had stayed in the field. The only alternative to standard base awards would be to have the umpire just guess at which base a runner may have reached on any play where the ball leaves the field. That would lead to uneven enforcement and create a lot more arguments! At least with standardized base awards everybody is on the same page, they know what the award will be every time and it takes any guesswork by the umpire out of the equation.

 

[FPMark]

I completely understand what you mean about a wild pitch going out of play and a runner being awarded one base from the time of pitch, but I'm wondering when it stops being a wild pitch and when the "at the time of pitch" rule would no longer be in effect. Is it untill another player touches the ball? If the ball bounces off the catchers shin guard is it still a wild pitch? Is there no circumstance that would change it from a wild pitch according to the rule book? It just seems odd that the defence would benefit from a defensive error. I'm sure that a pitch hitting the backstop and rolling into the dugout is not all that common, but what if it took long enough for the runner to round third? The rules are written to keep the game fair to both teams, but making the runner go back seems a little unfair. I don't mean to be a pest, but I really do like to understand rules. Thanks.

 

[BretMan]

Not being a pest at all. That's what these discussion boards are here for!

There is one circumstance where the one base award might change. The one base award for a pitch going out of play is based on the assumption that the pitch went out of play under its own power. It could bounce off the ground, off the catcher, off the umpire, or whatever before going out and it would still be a one base award.

Here is the exception to that rule- suppose the loose pitch is rolling along near the dugout, such that it would not go out of play under its own power. Now, suppose that a fielder goes for the ball and in her effort to retreive it provides a new impetus to the ball (bumps it, kicks it, bobbles it, etc.) and that new impetus causes the ball to enter dead ball area when it would otherwise not have under its own power.

In this case, the base award would be two bases, based on the runner's position when the fielder touched the ball.

 

[FPMark]

Thanks for the explanation, very helpfull. Where can I get a copy of the ASA rule book?