Question for some of you vets out there.

[GI Tom]

Dead balls: has any other official here unrung the bell after calling a dead ball for any reason? If so, what situations? I have never done so, but I've only been calling for 3 years. I came the closest to arguing for it last weekend. Here's the situation:

I'm BU, have R1 on 1B, 2 outs. F3 is playing just slightly in front of 1B. A screamer line drive is hit that is about 8-10 inches off the ground, ball hits a leaping R1 on the heel as she is going from 1B to 2B. My partner behind the plate immediately calls "Dead Ball, runner is out". Inning is over.

Of course, in my description, I mentioned that 1B was in front of the bag. The ball passed F3 before it hit R1 therefore nullifying runners intereference and a dead ball. In my partners defense, this happened quick, I mean lightning fast. (This is 16U TB) I don't think I got two steps and it was done. And honestly, I believe I would have instinctively made the same call.

Coach immediately comes out to argue that it passed a defender, my partner, thinking quickly on his feet, stated that he believed the F9 would have had a play on the BR at 1B. (Not an altogether bad response at the time) It was a stretch to say the least and everyone knew it. Let's just leave it at that.

Anyway, we let the play stand, and continued on. Anyone here that would reverse this call? And if so, how would you unscramble this egg? Discussed this at length with several others in our association, but am curious to get additional responses.

 

[MTR]

Anyway, we let the play stand, and continued on. Anyone here that would reverse this call? And if so, how would you unscramble this egg? Discussed this at length with several others in our association, but am curious to get additional responses.

You don't get points for speedy calls. Don't know what I would have done without seeing it.

 

[Ajaywill]

Can't unring this....

Once you call "DEAD BALL", everybody stops playing.

If you try to fix it, you are using your judgement to place runners and there is no way that you can make everybody happy. Even though that is not your primary concern, I think you are better off just eating the call and letting the offensive coach chew on you a bit while you are vowing to slow down next time.

It's much easier to change a live ball to a dead ball instead of the other way around.

 

[roscoe545]

How is it a stretch that F9 makes the play?? The way you explained it (being a screamer),
not knowing skill level of F9 or the speed of the B/R, sounds like a good chance of F9 getting the out.

Not being there it's hard to tell, but I wouldn't disagree with your partner.
Personally, I don't like the way the rule reads, but it seems nobody likes my opinions lol.

 

[quincy]

In one of DD’s game the ump called a ball foul to early, change his mind an called it fair when the 3rd basemen picked up the ball. What a mess! Somehow I lost the discussion and the play stood. Dead ball needs to stay a dead ball.

Different thing but in VB this year after 15 or 20 minutes it was determined the judge made a bad call. It was decided that there would be a do over. What a do over? Show me that in the rule book. Fine someone made a mistake, live with it and move on.

 

[David Carter]

Not that this scenario happens alot but umpires making the wrong call or even a judgement call that in retrospect they would have judged differently happens. Most of the time if there is a way to rationalize the call within the rules that route is taken, not that it is wrong it just happens. This is one of the reasons why it is dumb to yell and scream at umpires they usually have a reasonable response that involves their judgement which of course can not be questioned.

In this particular scenario it was a very instinctive reaction to make the call, if your players are experienced players you might even have one just stop and jog back to the dugout after being hit by the ball even if you don't make the call.

To your question about unringing the bell I am not coming up with anything specific but I'm sure it happens, in this scenario I could easily have seen putting the runners on first and second (maybe but probably not third), however only after the play you can't make it live once it has been called dead, only untangle the mess afterwords.

I do sympathize I was once an ump to although only for three years.

 

[MTR]

How is it a stretch that F9 makes the play?? The way you explained it (being a screamer),
not knowing skill level of F9 or the speed of the B/R, sounds like a good chance of F9 getting the out.

Be careful here. You noted two different parameters. The rule would only apply if, in the umpire's judgment, F9 would have made an out. Simply being able to make a play is irrelevant.

 

[roscoe545]

Thanks for the correction MTR. After reading 8-4-F in the ASA rulebook, I'm actually a little confused.

I'll re-read it tomorrow.

 

[MTR]

Thanks for the correction MTR. After reading 8-4-F in the ASA rulebook, I'm actually a little confused.

I'll re-read it tomorrow.

State with Rule 1. A play is defined as an attempt by the defensive player to retire an offensive player. Then go to 8.8.D where it clearly states that in the umpire's judgment, the defender would have had the opportunity to make an out.

IOW, the umpire must believe the defense had a reasonable chance to put out any of the runners. If your next thought is "what if", you are probably already outside the parameters of the rule

 

[roscoe545]

Very well put MTR. The whole "had a chance to make an out" can be confusing,
but if you take out the WHAT IF, it's a little easier to understand.

I guess it's a good thing I am just a silent "fan" of the game!!!!

Thanks for the clarification.