Sacrifice Bunts and Slappers

I have heard and read many different interpretations of the rules. I guess I have generally given the batter the benefit of the doubt when scoring a SAC. If the slapper goes through her slapping footwork but then bunts instead of slapping I would give her a SAC if she advances a runner even though I don't think a slapper is really ever truly trying just to SAC since they usually have a chance to reach the base safely on a bunt. Sometimes the slapper actually gets credit for a hit when she was really just trying to move a runner. Does that make sense or am I being too generous to the slapper? I would never coach a slapper who is a really good slap-bunter to stand there and bunt. I have coached some slappers who had proven that they could not get the slap-bunt down consistently to "bunt" in the more traditional way when we really needed a runner moved. How does the scorekeeper know what the intent was? We often let the slapper choose what she will do based on the defense. If she chooses to slap-bunt and advances a runner none of us including the coaches know what was going on in her head unless we ask her.

I bring this up because I recently heard a HS coach tell a slapper that she would "give her credit" for a SAC because she moved the runner even though she shouldn't get credit because she often tries to get base-hits with a slap-bunt. I thought that was odd. I bolded the last part of the NCAA rules extract below. I would count a "slap-bunt" as a slapper changing her slap swing to "tap" the ball into play. It says she must make a modification to her "swing or motion" it does not say "swing and motion".

Extract from NCAA rule 14

SECTION 8—SACRIFICE
A sacrifice is credited to the batter in the following
situations:
14.8.1 When a plate appearance meets the following four
criteria: 1) there are fewer than two outs, 2) the batter advances
one or more runners by bunting, 3) the ball must be bunted
(that is, not swung at, not slapped at, not chopped at), and 4)
the batter is called out at first base or would have been out had
no error occurred.
Note: Just as the official scorer should award base hits instead
of charging errors in cases involving doubt, a play that meets all
four criteria for a sacrifice should be scored as such instead of simply
awarding a putout and assist (if applicable).
14.8.2 When, with fewer than two outs, the defense (without
error) fails to get the lead runner out on any type of bunt.
Note: If the lead runner is tagged out in an attempt to advance
more than one base, it is scored a fielder’s choice. If the batter is
obviously bunting for a hit in a situation in which a sacrifice is not
normally used, credit the hitter with an at-bat.
14.8.3 When, with fewer than two outs, the lead runner advances
by means of a bunt but a trailing runner is out.
14.8.4 When, with fewer than two outs and runners at first
and third base, the pitcher fields a bunt, holds the runner at
third base, throws the runner out at first base and the runner at
first advances safely to second base.
SECTION 9—SACRIFICE NOT CREDITED
No sacrifice is credited in the following situations:
14.9.1 When a lead runner advances on a bunt because of a
dropped good throw.
14.9.2 When a batter inadvertently taps the ball into fair territory
and it results in a runner advancing and the batter being
retired. The intent to sacrifice bunt must exist.
Note: Scoring for the left-handed running slapper should be the
same as for a traditional left- or right-handed batter. If the running
slapper clearly shows the intent to advance a base runner, credit
a sacrifice. If modifications are not made to the running slapper’s
swing or motion, charge an at-bat, even if a base runner advances.

What are your thoughts?

Where did you get that excerpt? Here are the current rules from the 2016-17 rule book with key portions in bold. Judging intent is often difficult and the guidance in 14.8.1's note is to credit a sac when in doubt.

14.8 Sacrifice
A sacrifice is credited to the batter in the following situations:
14.8.1 When a plate appearance meets the following four criteria: 1) there are fewer than two outs, 2) the batter advances one or more base runners by bunting, 3) the ball must be bunted (that is, not swung at, not slapped at, not chopped at), and 4) the batter is called out at first base or would have been out had no error occurred.
Note: Just as the official scorer should award base hits instead of charging errors in cases involving doubt, a play that meets all four criteria for a sacrifice should be scored as such instead of simply awarding a putout and assist (if applicable).
14.8.2 When, with fewer than two outs, the defense (without error) fails to get the lead base runner out on any type of bunt.
Note: If the lead base runner is tagged out in an attempt to advance more than one base, it is scored a fielder’s choice. If the batter is obviously bunting for a hit in a situation in which a sacrifice is not normally used, credit the hitter with an at-bat.
14.8.3 When, with fewer than two outs, the lead base runner advances by means of a bunt even though a trailing runner is out.
14.8.4 When, with fewer than two outs and base runners at first and third bases, the pitcher fields a bunt, holds the base runner at third base, throws
the base runner out at first base and the base runner at first advances safely to second base.

14.9 Sacrifice Not Credited
No sacrifice is credited in the following situations:
14.9.1 When a lead base runner advances on a bunt because of a dropped good throw.
14.9.2 When a batter inadvertently taps the ball into fair territory and it results in a base runner advancing and the batter being retired. The intent to sacrifice bunt must exist.
Note: Scoring for the left-handed running slapper should be the same as for a traditional left- or right-handed batter. If the running slapper clearly shows the intent to advance a base runner by bunting, credit a sacrifice. If the running slapper slaps or swings, charge an at-bat, even if a base runner advances.
14.9.3 When a play made on the lead base runner is successful and she is put out, charge the batter with an at-bat and fielder’s choice.

There is no such thing as a slap bunt. A slap is a swing and a bunt is a bunt. A slap that goes foul with two strikes, the batter still has two strikes. A drag bunt is what you are referring to regarding the forward running motion that a slapper does. The key is the wrist roll on or after contact. You should NEVER use the phrase slap bunt ever again.

PlayPerfect said:

There is no such thing as a slap bunt. A slap is a swing and a bunt is a bunt. A slap that goes foul with two strikes, the batter still has two strikes. A drag bunt is what you are referring to regarding the forward running motion that a slapper does. The key is the wrist roll on or after contact. You should NEVER use the phrase slap bunt ever again.

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I love how people aren't very opinionated on this forum! Does someone take away Christmas if you use the term slap-bunt? A slap-bunt IS kind of an oxymoron However, if you watch a slapper bunt and a regular lefty drag bunt it is not exactly the same. Slappers should get credit for a SAC when they bunt and move a runner. Is there reference to wrist roll in the rules?

SoCal_Dad said:

Where did you get that excerpt? Here are the current rules from the 2016-17 rule book with key portions in bold. Judging intent is often difficult and the guidance in 14.8.1's note is to credit a sac when in doubt.

14.8 Sacrifice
A sacrifice is credited to the batter in the following situations:
14.8.1 When a plate appearance meets the following four criteria: 1) there are fewer than two outs, 2) the batter advances one or more base runners by bunting, 3) the ball must be bunted (that is, not swung at, not slapped at, not chopped at), and 4) the batter is called out at first base or would have been out had no error occurred.
Note: Just as the official scorer should award base hits instead of charging errors in cases involving doubt, a play that meets all four criteria for a sacrifice should be scored as such instead of simply awarding a putout and assist (if applicable).
14.8.2 When, with fewer than two outs, the defense (without error) fails to get the lead base runner out on any type of bunt.
Note: If the lead base runner is tagged out in an attempt to advance more than one base, it is scored a fielder’s choice. If the batter is obviously bunting for a hit in a situation in which a sacrifice is not normally used, credit the hitter with an at-bat.
14.8.3 When, with fewer than two outs, the lead base runner advances by means of a bunt even though a trailing runner is out.
14.8.4 When, with fewer than two outs and base runners at first and third bases, the pitcher fields a bunt, holds the base runner at third base, throws
the base runner out at first base and the base runner at first advances safely to second base.

14.9 Sacrifice Not Credited
No sacrifice is credited in the following situations:
14.9.1 When a lead base runner advances on a bunt because of a dropped good throw.
14.9.2 When a batter inadvertently taps the ball into fair territory and it results in a base runner advancing and the batter being retired. The intent to sacrifice bunt must exist.
Note: Scoring for the left-handed running slapper should be the same as for a traditional left- or right-handed batter. If the running slapper clearly shows the intent to advance a base runner by bunting, credit a sacrifice. If the running slapper slaps or swings, charge an at-bat, even if a base runner advances.
14.9.3 When a play made on the lead base runner is successful and she is put out, charge the batter with an at-bat and fielder’s choice.

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Thanks for posting the correct rules! I guess I was a little bit lazy on checking my sources. My question is obviously answered as far as crediting the SAC, but I guess based on what PlayPerfect and 55dad bring up, the real question may be how you define a bunt when a slapper is the batter. I appreciate your opinion and input PlayPerfect but I respectfully disagree about a slap-bunt being a drag-bunt. It is definitely not a drag-bunt. Slap-bunt might not be defined in the rules and I understand that a slap and a bunt are technically two different things but when a slapper "slap-bunts" she is doing everything exactly like she does on a regular slap but at the last instant she bunts rather than slaps. Slappers can and do drag-bunt but they also do what I (and others) refer to as a slap-bunt. Maybe there is a better term for it, so someone please help out. I have seen the term soft-slap used but I am not sure that is exactly the right term either. I have seen slappers called out when they roll a "slap-bunt" foul with two strikes. In that umpire's mind, the batter was definitely not slapping. In the correct rules that SoCal_Dad posted it says, "If the running slapper clearly shows the intent to advance a base-runner by bunting credit a sacrifice." A slapper generally bunts differently than a regular batter, so whatever you call it, maybe intent, result, and motion all weigh into the judgement call. I will quibble a little bit with your wrist-roll remark Playperfect. I have seen plenty of slappers slap the ball by extending the wrists without rolling the wrists and it was definitely not a bunt.

let it be fun said:

Thanks for posting the correct rules! I guess I was a little bit lazy on checking my sources.

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No problem. It was very close to current, which made me wonder where you got it. There are some old ones floating around that say a SAC could be awarded on a slap (e.g. http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/Stats_Manuals/Baseball/baseball_softball_scorebook.pdf).

My question is obviously answered as far as crediting the SAC, but I guess based on what PlayPerfect and 55dad bring up, the real question may be how you define a bunt when a slapper is the batter. I appreciate your opinion and input PlayPerfect but I respectfully disagree about a slap-bunt being a drag-bunt. It is definitely not a drag-bunt. Slap-bunt might not be defined in the rules and I understand that a slap and a bunt are technically two different things but when a slapper "slap-bunts" she is doing everything exactly like she does on a regular slap but at the last instant she bunts rather than slaps. Slappers can and do drag-bunt but they also do what I (and others) refer to as a slap-bunt. Maybe there is a better term for it, so someone please help out. I have seen the term soft-slap used but I am not sure that is exactly the right term either. I have seen slappers called out when they roll a "slap-bunt" foul with two strikes. In that umpire's mind, the batter was definitely not slapping. In the correct rules that SoCal_Dad posted it says, "If the running slapper clearly shows the intent to advance a base-runner by bunting credit a sacrifice." A slapper generally bunts differently than a regular batter, so whatever you call it, maybe intent, result, and motion all weigh into the judgement call. I will quibble a little bit with your wrist-roll remark Playperfect. I have seen plenty of slappers slap the ball by extending the wrists without rolling the wrists and it was definitely not a bunt.

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The footwork is irrelevant when determining whether it is a bunt or slap. They can bunt, slap or drive the ball over the fence with it.

SoCal_Dad said:

No problem. It was very close to current, which made me wonder where you got it. There are some old ones floating around that say a SAC could be awarded on a slap (e.g. http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/Stats_Manuals/Baseball/baseball_softball_scorebook.pdf).


The footwork is irrelevant when determining whether it is a bunt or slap. They can bunt, slap or drive the ball over the fence with it.

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Unless they have world class speed, a slapper will never be successful at higher levels of play if they can't drive the ball into the outfield on occasion! Slappers also need to know how to HIT. After watching the FP game for 10+ years, I firmly believe that 8-fielders in the dirt should be standard until a slapper proves they can hit the ball into the outfield. IME, out of 10 unknown slappers you try this with, 8 will be exposed and 2 will burn you (but only once!).

Thanks for the thread bend Green Monsters! I hope we play against you!

55dad said:

Thanks for the thread bend Green Monsters! I hope we play against you!

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LOL! I'll make sure I get a scouting report in advance. I've just seen too many slappers that never learned to hit.

Slap hitters

Greenmonsters said:

Unless they have world class speed, a slapper will never be successful at higher levels of play if they can't drive the ball into the outfield on occasion! Slappers also need to know how to HIT. After watching the FP game for 10+ years, I firmly believe that 8-fielders in the dirt should be standard until a slapper proves they can hit the ball into the outfield. IME, out of 10 unknown slappers you try this with, 8 will be exposed and 2 will burn you (but only once!).

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I teach slap hitting from 10U to college athletes. I can teach a 12U or even some 10U to put over an outfielders head in just a few lessons. I wouldn't bank on your defensive strategy. Most elite travel clubs by 14U have slappers that can drive it to the fence ....slappers that can't.... aren't playing A level travel ball. If you want to play college ball as a slapper (at any level) you better make sure you can drive it to the fence or you won't make a team.