Ump messed up count--Batter called out.

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Apr 24, 2016
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Just wondering what is the right way to handle this situation. Batter has a count of 2-2 and steps up in box for next pitch when umpire yells out that the count is 3-1. The batter then steps out of box to verify the count, stating that she thought it was 2-2, and the ump again states that the count is 3-1. The batter questions the count again, and the home plate ump yells to the field ump asking what count he has, but he does not respond, so he again affirmatively states that the count is 3-1. The next pitch is thrown, and the batter does not attempt to swing, and it is called a strike. The ump then indicates that it is a full count. At this point, the opposing team objects and says that that was three strikes and the batter should be out. At this point, the ump comes over to the home team scorekeepers (which happened to be our team) and asks what the count was before the last pitch. Being honest, they tell him that it was 2-2, so he calls the batter out. Was this the way this should have been handled? As a side note, this batter has only struck once this entire season and everyone knew that had she known that that was going to be a 3rd strike would have definitely made an attempt at hitting the ball.
 
Jul 16, 2013
4,659
113
Pennsylvania
As a scorekeeper myself, I am always listening to the umpire when he states the count. If a hitter on my team is questioning the count, I am immediately out of the dugout to verify the count personally. If the umpire's count does not match the count I have, I am asking for assistance from the other umpire. I very rarely encounter these situations, but it typically happens a couple times per year.
 
Jun 22, 2008
3,731
113
The umpire forgetting the count and relaying it incorrectly does not change what the cou t really was. The count can be corrected up until a pitch is thrown to another batter. There is a case play where a strike was missed and a batter hit a walk off home run 2 pitches after she should have struck out. If appealed prior to a pitch to another player, the home run would be negated and the batter would be out.
 
Jan 22, 2011
1,600
113
I almost got thrown out of a tournament once for a similar situation. Umpire told batter the count was 2-1, I had 2-1, and my scorekeeper had 2-1. Umpire called strike 3 on the next pitch and refused to check the official 'home book' to see what they had as the count.
 
Jun 27, 2011
5,089
0
North Carolina
The umpire forgetting the count and relaying it incorrectly does not change what the count really was. The count can be corrected up until a pitch is thrown to another batter.

How does a player find out the real count? If the umpire is not 100 percent reliable, then what is the authority?

I don't disagree with what you're saying. Just trying to understand how it works. It would seem that a batter or coach would have the right to know the correct count at all times. Under the rule as you state it, it is impossible to confirm the official count with certainty until an umpire rules a strikeout or walk.
 

MTR

Jun 22, 2008
3,438
48
How does a player find out the real count? If the umpire is not 100 percent reliable, then what is the authority?

I don't disagree with what you're saying. Just trying to understand how it works. It would seem that a batter or coach would have the right to know the correct count at all times. Under the rule as you state it, it is impossible to confirm the official count with certainty until an umpire rules a strikeout or walk.

The coach is permitted to carry an indicator and keep the count if they please. Yes, the umpire can lose the count even with an indicator. When questioned, an umpire should do whatever s/he can to confirm it. The "home book" isn't really an official reference, but once the umpires settle on a count, that has to be the count, cannot change it after that point.
 
May 24, 2013
12,461
113
So Cal
Umps do lose track of the count. I see it regularly. Not every weekend, but it happens. It happened yesterday. I've come across an ump that lost track of the count more than once in the same game. It turns out that umps are human.
 
Sep 29, 2014
2,421
113
Umps do lose track of the count. I see it regularly. Not every weekend, but it happens. It happened yesterday. I've come across an ump that lost track of the count more than once in the same game. It turns out that umps are human.

But if the player asks me two times what the count is and each time I loudly proclaim the count is 3-1, then I call a strike and ring her up...SHAME on ME!!

You can say what you want but sometimes you have to have some integrity and cheating a girl out of an bat because you made a mistake does not add up, when the opposing team came over to me and objected I would have simply said "you heard me call the count three times as 3-1 it is now 3-2" end of discussion.
 
Jun 22, 2008
3,731
113
You can say what you want but sometimes you have to have some integrity and cheating a girl out of an bat because you made a mistake does not add up, when the opposing team came over to me and objected I would have simply said "you heard me call the count three times as 3-1 it is now 3-2" end of discussion.

You have enough integrity to not cheat a girl out of an at bat, yet you seem to be more than happy to cheat the defense out of an out they earned because you lost track of the count?

The case play I posted is pretty clear, if the umpire made a mistake and it is brought to their attention prior to a pitch being thrown to another batter they must correct the error.
 
Sep 29, 2014
2,421
113
You have enough integrity to not cheat a girl out of an at bat, yet you seem to be more than happy to cheat the defense out of an out they earned because you lost track of the count?

The case play I posted is pretty clear, if the umpire made a mistake and it is brought to their attention prior to a pitch being thrown to another batter they must correct the error.

I could understand this rationale and completely agree, IF the batter had not TWICE asked for the count. You can't as the umpire tell the batter THREE times the count is 3-1 and then ring them up on the next pitch and say strike three?? If you as the umpire are sure of the count state the count if you are not then YOU should ask the scorekeeper or fellow umpire. I'm sure you can see the problem of doing things as you are suggesting.
 

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