ASA base award question.

Ok, first off, I understand this is from the certification test, but I am only going to ask about the one question we (mostly me) are having a hard time agreeing on.

Q7) With no outs and R1 on 3B, R2 on 2B and B3 at bat, F1 throws a wild pitch that gets away from F2 and stops a few feet from the dugout entrance. As F2 is going to retrieve the ball she accidentally kicks the ball sending it into dead ball territory inside the dugout.

It would seem most of my fellow umpires are going with one base. Basically, it is still a pitch, so one from the pitchers plate.

I know I have seen this type of situation on umpire board before and I am pretty sure it was stated that, if the reason the ball went out of play is because of actions by F2, then it should be a two base award.

I am having a tough time finding a rule to back here though. I even contacted my FED friends and they also seem to agree that it should be the one base award.


Can anyone help me here? ASA preferably but FED, Little League, whatever.

A rule would help. I've seen the rule that says 'intentionally' kicked, but nothing about this play yet.


thanks in advance.
--odie

It doesnt fit they play exactly, but ASA does have a case play on a batted ball where a fielder misplays a ball and kicks it into dead ball territory. Under ASA this is treated the same as a thrown ball and it is a 2 base award from the time of the kick.

Not an official answer but I noticed [MENTION=426]Comp[/MENTION] said from the time of the kick. I think this is important as I was thinking about it. Up until the time she kicks the ball everything is OK and the runners are free to advance; what if catcher was slow to get to it and R2 had made it home, would you send her back to 3B I think that makes it clearer, given the one base ruling the players would be trying to knock the ball out of play since it would guarantee only one base (not getting off on tangent about intentionally hitting ball out being another possible violation of some kind)

Well, I did find the ruling comp posted, but not being a pitch didn't get far with it.

I also used your argument, djcarter1966, but used speedy R1 on first almost on 3rd, being sent back to 2nd because of 'accidental' kick. Also ASSUMED I'd be sending a coach home early on that one.

A rule reference would go further....I keep looking, but haven't found anything.

Not everything is going to have a rule that specifically spells it out. Sometimes you do have to research case plays, clarifications and the like to make a determination of what the ruling is.

Is this a question on the ASA test? If so, my bet is going to be the ruling is a 2 base award from the time of the kick. The defender provided the impetus that propelled the ball out of play and would be treated the same as a thrown ball.

Comp, I agree, not everything is spelled out, sometimes it takes a mix of a few different rules too.

Seeing as how I am, so far, the only one in my group saying two bases, I was hoping to find something to help back my case.

I think possibly those that are saying 1 base and disregarding the case play because it is a batted ball vs a pitched ball are missing the basic ruling. A ball kicked into dead ball territory is treated exactly the same as a ball thrown into dead ball territory.

So, if the play were changed to the catcher picked up and threw the ball into dead ball territory, what would they rule then?

Well, one said a pitch is a pitch until controlled by the defense (or hit by batter, or hit batter).

So with that one, I believe they'd say two bases.

I do not disagree with Comp as that is as close of an interpretation for this situation.

However, I will not argue with anyone who wants to use 8.5.G.Exception1 as a GUIDELINE for the award. Actually, IMO, this is the closest to what I believe would be the appropriate award as it takes into consideration an allowance for runners which would accommodate any runners which were advancing on the pitch.

BTW the politically correct expression is now. Animal companion peeves