Thread: New Style of not closing?

Hi Everyone, I'm new to the forum but not new to the game. I've pitched for 13 years, but now I coach. I've always taught it the same way I was taught. It's worked well with me and several girls I started one who pitched in college also. I was speaking with my dad last night and he was telling me about a "new" way of pitching.

A coworker he was speaking with is bringing his daughter to someone who is teaching her to only half close her hips. Maybe it's a new thing that I haven't heard of since I haven't personally been to a coach in roughly 7 or so years.

Anyone have any information about this?

Thanks Screwball.
I'm all about learning and doing it right.

As I said, I generally teach the way I have been tought. After brushing through this forum I'm finding quite a few things that I was taught and I teach that I'm seeing isn't supposed to be. Examples:

Slamming the glove hand down to brush the leg (some girls initially start with hitting the top of the leg but then I have them move it over once they get the concept)

fully opening the hips and closing the hips << Using the door method...open the door have the ball go through then close the door hard and fast. My shoulder was never hurt, nor has any of the girls over the year i've taught. **by no means am I debunking you or saying it's not true, I'm just trying to see the new to me ways.

I want to make sure my girls have the best things coming to them. Very glad I found this site.

New term I'm seeing is "hello elbow"? I'm guessing that is when she has a straight wrist snap and follows through to her shoulder? << I have one who does this and is doing well. If she doesn't it's all over the place. It keeps her in line it seems.

Originally Posted by Screwball

It is not new, but it may be to some. You do NOT close your hips all the way, as it can cause shoulder injury.

Just look at any current college pitcher. Very few close and those that do, tend to be somewhat closed on the lower body the whole time (shoulder open only). I also think the open position helps you drag your foot (a rule that was not in place a long time ago).

So the way I know... is open all the way, arm speed, slam the arms down, strong straight foward wrist snap, releasing at the hip off the middle finger, slamming the hips shut and finishing up at the shoulder.

So is it basically the same minus the closing of the hips? leaving it half closed? That seems to be an area where I generated the last bit of power.

Originally Posted by sluggers

Agree with Screwball. It is a very common style of pitching. Whitney Canion (Baylor) was probably the best pitcher at the 2011 CWS, and she never fully closes.

Never teach the way you were taught. Always figure out WHY you were taught what you were taught, the alternatives, and then use judgement and common sense to figure out the best path forward.

Many students are taught shortcuts or quirks that helped them overcome a mechanical deficiency to get them game ready. Many teachers will pass on the quirks they were taught as cannon, because they don't fully understand why they were even doing it.

Then we have the fact that all kids are different. What works for you may not work for them, a good teacher will know that each student is unique and will tailor their lessons accordingly.

Finally, remain a student of the game. No one teaches batters to stick their elbow up and squish the bug, but some time ago that was taught to nearly every player. With super slow motion video and expert kinesologists getting more involved in the act of pitching, we have a lot more data available to make intelligent decisions regarding what and how we teach.

-W

Originally Posted by meg.w.stev

So the way I know... is open all the way, arm speed, slam the arms down, strong straight foward wrist snap, releasing at the hip off the middle finger, slamming the hips shut and finishing up at the shoulder.

So is it basically the same minus the closing of the hips? leaving it half closed? That seems to be an area where I generated the last bit of power.

Define "slam the arms down"?

Nearly every high level pitcher leads with their elbow on the way down. Once the elbow reaches the side/hip, the elbow stops moving (not a conscious stop, stopping is a non teach, this is just an observation from video) and the lower arm rotates through to release. This is called arm whip (though some here like to call it internal rotation). This is more of a "pull the ball down", then a "slam the arms down", with pulling down being the key. That said, one of the biggest problems we have to overcome is that different people call the same motion different things, hence the request for what you mean by your statement.

-W

I do alter depending on the kid, but the basics is what I keep the same. That's what I'm trying to figure out. I got away from it and became involved in EMS which absorbed every bit of my time being a Paramedic, so I didn't keep up to date.

Originally Posted by starsnuffer

Never teach the way you were taught. Always figure out WHY you were taught what you were taught, the alternatives, and then use judgement and common sense to figure out the best path forward.

Many students are taught shortcuts or quirks that helped them overcome a mechanical deficiency to get them game ready. Many teachers will pass on the quirks they were taught as cannon, because they don't fully understand why they were even doing it.

Then we have the fact that all kids are different. What works for you may not work for them, a good teacher will know that each student is unique and will tailor their lessons accordingly.

Finally, remain a student of the game. No one teaches batters to stick their elbow up and squish the bug, but some time ago that was taught to nearly every player. With super slow motion video and expert kinesologists getting more involved in the act of pitching, we have a lot more data available to make intelligent decisions regarding what and how we teach.

-W

I refer to it as slam the arms down but what you described is the same

Originally Posted by starsnuffer

Define "slam the arms down"?

Nearly every high level pitcher leads with their elbow on the way down. Once the elbow reaches the side/hip, the elbow stops moving (not a conscious stop, stopping is a non teach, this is just an observation from video) and the lower arm rotates through to release. This is called arm whip (though some here like to call it internal rotation). This is more of a "pull the ball down", then a "slam the arms down", with pulling down being the key. That said, one of the biggest problems we have to overcome is that different people call the same motion different things, hence the request for what you mean by your statement.

-W

Sorry, I didn't go into major detail on that part, was more focusing on the arms/hips because that's where my question started out at. The girls I have right now are 8 and 9. I initially teach the step ... then after they get that good and down pact then we extend it out the leap and drag. They tend to adjust quickly as in within that session. I've noticed if and when I went to the leap first they didn't understand the concept of the pitch itself and ended up pitching illegally because they were more focused on the "leap" than anything else. They ened up with both feet off the ground.

Originally Posted by Screwball

Saying 'slam the arms down' makes the kid muscle the pitch rather than letting gravity and whip take over, so please don't say it.

There is no need to hit yourself to pitch. Ask yourself what that accomplishes? Timing is a matter of other things not an arbitrary slap.

I notice no emphasis on the leap (and drag) or stride in your description and that should be foremost. Closing the door was initially done with the step style.