Fastball Speed vs Movement

cluelessdad · Jan 18, 2012

My DD is 14 and a HS Freshman. She is solid pitcher with a fastball, change-up, curve, screw-ball, and drop curve. (Change-up is her best pitch.) Her fastball, curve and screwball are all similar in speed and consistently 55-58. Last season, we noticed her fastball had a spin similar to her curve which causes it to jump randomly most of the time. Not as much break as curve, maybe 2-4 inches. We suspect that it is costing her 2-3mph on her top speed. Last week we started working with her to to fix the spin using striped ball and the spinner puck. It appears that this will take a significant amount of effort to fix, which we are committed to.

To complicate matters, last weekend her travel team played a game and she pitched great. After the game, her coach commented that even though the other pitcher was pitching faster, they could not hit my DD's "goofy" fastball. After thinking about it, her results have been outstanding especially when factored with her off speed pitches. Her coach's comments was not to change a thing.

She is doing everything possible to increase her speed, core strength training, pitching drills... because she believes that getting over the 60 mark is critical playing after HS. How important is speed compared to results?

Should we continue to fix this spin issue?

Any thoughts?

CluelessDad

Sweet Lou · Jan 18, 2012

Both is optimal, but a pitcher who throws 57 with movement on a fastball is generally going to be more sucessful than a picther who thows 60 but staight as an arrow.

starsnuffer · Jan 18, 2012

I think you're missing the most important factor: Location.

Being able to spot the fastball exactly where the pitcher wants it and move it an inch at a time in any direction is the most important characteristic for a successful fastball. This is used to play against a batters weakness with surgical precision, and allows the pitcher to adapt to any umpires strike zone, and slowly widen that strike zone over the course of a game.

"Random unpredictable movement" is just a sign of mechanical inconsistency. If the fastball has some movement, fine, but it should be the same movement each time and the pitcher should be able to use this movement to hit the spot she is aiming for. If the pitcher has no idea which way the pitch is going to break, then they give up their greatest weapon.

Location>speed>movement.

-W

Steve Huff · Jan 18, 2012

cluelessdad said:
My DD is 14 and a HS Freshman. She is solid pitcher with a fastball, change-up, curve, screw-ball, and drop curve. (Change-up is her best pitch.) Her fastball, curve and screwball are all similar in speed and consistently 55-58. Last season, we noticed her fastball had a spin similar to her curve which causes it to jump randomly most of the time. Not as much break as curve, maybe 2-4 inches. We suspect that it is costing her 2-3mph on her top speed. Last week we started working with her to to fix the spin using striped ball and the spinner puck. It appears that this will take a significant amount of effort to fix, which we are committed to.

To complicate matters, last weekend her travel team played a game and she pitched great. After the game, her coach commented that even though the other pitcher was pitching faster, they could not hit my DD's "goofy" fastball. After thinking about it, her results have been outstanding especially when factored with her off speed pitches. Her coach's comments was not to change a thing.

She is doing everything possible to increase her speed, core strength training, pitching drills... because she believes that getting over the 60 mark is critical playing after HS. How important is speed compared to results?

Should we continue to fix this spin issue?

Any thoughts?

CluelessDad

Agree with Sweet Lou! I have some questions? Does this ball break away from a RH hitter? Out? Down? If it breaks down, it must have a slight tilt on it, with a slight roll-over. All fast-balls should move. A "peel-drop" is nothing more than an exaggerated fast-ball with the correct spin angle. A fast-ball is best breaking straight down. If you look at this; + , the four directions of the bars is what you want pitches to do. This is a long term issue, not a 14U issue.

A third drill: If your daughter has trouble throwing a pitch with the appropriate spin, try using a rise-ball grip, or circle-change grip, and have her feel the peel off of her 2nd and 3rd finger tips. A few hundred reps, and mix in a regular grip across the seams every 4th pitch or so. Your other drills are perfect to set this up.

02Crush · Jan 18, 2012

Movement matters. If you put a batter against a pitching machine and merely crank up the speed really high eventually that batter get the timing and hit the ball. Why? B/C it is generally in the same location with less movement than a real person. As a pitcher if your are fast and straight as an arrow you are like a glorified pitching machine. I would continue developing the core strength b/c Increasing speed will not hurt her as the moves up in age. But Increasing speed at the price of lost control would be bad.

cluelessdad · Jan 19, 2012

Thanks for you feedback. Her location is good, very few walks. The "Randomness" is that it doesn't break 100% of the time. Lately more times than not it jumps 2 inches away from a RH batter. Because the movement is late, deep in batters box and it only moves 2 inches, pitches end up close to desired location and Umps usually give her the call.

cluelessdad · Jan 19, 2012

Thanks for your feedback. It usually breaks away from a RH batter. Her pitching has been very effective even at her current speed because she has an awesome change up that she can consistently throw at the knees for called strikes. We will keep an eye on it. Living in the Midwest, January / February is the best time to work on mechanics. We were afraid that some coaches might perceive the spin on her fastball as poor mechanics.

sluggers · Jan 19, 2012

It doesn't matter how fast she throws or how much her fastball breaks, because right now she doesn't have a big vertical movement pitch. She either has to have a riseball or drop that breaks 10 to 15 inches. If she doesn't have either of those, she won't play in college.

People underestimate college hitters all the time. The hitters are very, very good. There are scouting reports in college. A pitcher might face the same batters ten times over a weekend (3 at bats over 3 games), and then will face them again during the conference championship games.

What your DD has now as far as breaking pitches and speed isn't going to cut it in college.

Her fastball, curve and screwball are all similar in speed and consistently 55-58.

Because they are all, most likely, the same pitch.

Should we continue to fix this spin issue?

No...you should be working with her to develop a big time drop or a big time rise.

cluelessdad · Jan 19, 2012

Sluggers, thanks for you comments. Last year, she started working on a rise ball in the off season, but effort was cut short due to injury. She did not throw rise in games last season because 1 in 4 did not rise and was left belt high in the center of the plate. Her high screwball did benefit from effort because it move both at RH hitter and up slightly which seemed to work well games. She practices pitching 3 days per week and we do try to focus on 1 pitch per night. She has been working on her drop ball this off season and hope to be throwing both rise and drop this season.

sluggers · Jan 19, 2012

She needs one *GREAT* vertical breaking pith if she wants to play in college. A dozen mediocre pitches are worthless. Stop trying to teach her to throw a rise, curve, screw, drop, drop ball and pick EITHER a drop OR a rise, and work exclusively on it until she masters that pitch.

What does "master" mean?

(1) She can make the ball move vertically 99% of the time.
(2) She can put the ball into at least three different vertical levels, one of which is a strike.
(3) She can move the ball horizontally around the plate.

Most parents don't know what a "real" drop ball or a "real" rise ball looks like. A real rise or drop has 12 to 15 inches of movement. A rise ball literally looks like it jumps a foot. You need to catch someone who throws a real rise or a real drop.

Her coach's comments was not to change a thing.

Which means that she will never become good enough to pitch at 16U.

Fastball Speed vs Movement

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