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Thread: CU vs Off-Speed

  1. #11
    Certified softball maniac lhowser's Avatar
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    What do you think it is lhowser...a horse shoe change?
    I'm not sure what to call it but I have shown 3 recent players how to throw it and the disguise is excellent. Here is what I think is happening (I have no high speed film to confirm). Basically just bring your hand around the outside of the ball and try to push it off your thumb and index finger. Your hand move around the ball in kind of a flip position but there is no effort to impart backspin like the floating flipper.

  2. #12
    I can talk softball all day Coach Stan's Avatar
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    Either the CU or offspeed can be effective only if you sell it properly. Any slowing down in the wideup will give the pitch away and the result may be very bad. When I teach a CU or offspeed I ensure the pitcher undestands that the speed of the wideup for either has to be the same as any of her speed pitches to ensure the batter does not pick up the pitch.

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    Administrator Ken Krause's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coach Stan View Post
    Either the CU or offspeed can be effective only if you sell it properly. Any slowing down in the wideup will give the pitch away and the result may be very bad. When I teach a CU or offspeed I ensure the pitcher undestands that the speed of the wideup for either has to be the same as any of her speed pitches to ensure the batter does not pick up the pitch.
    Dang, you beat me to it! The weakness of the change isn't the speed, it's the delivery and not being disguised. If you can get a hitter to believe the pitch will be fast by the visual clues she's going to have a tough time re-setting no matter how good a hitter she is.

    When I watch the WCWS, which presumably has the best college players in the country, changeups are 15 mph slower than cruising speeds and they don't get hit very often. When they do, it's usually because the pitcher has establish a pattern or predictability.
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  4. #14
    gvm
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    what is an off speed pitch? if you don't throw a rollover drop? then what would be an offspeed pitch? my dd throws a fastball and a change up. her coach suggested that she learn an offspeed. and i totally agree that 3 different speeds, would be better than 2. and this coach knows alot more than i do about softball. but, say for instance my dd throws a 50 mph fastball. but when she throws a bad pitch, it's a 45 mph fastball? and that is normally the pitch that gets hit? i realize college pitchers can throw a fastball at a consistent speed, but for the younger girls a slow fastball is a bad pitch?(imo) so what is an off speed pitch? more fingers on the ball? a slow fastball? maybe a slow fastball that you can really control? any ideas ???

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    Certified softball maniac Sweet Lou's Avatar
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    An off speed pitch is any pitch you throw with a noticible drop in velocity from your fastball. So changeup, slow curve, most drops, some screw balls and knuckle balls would all be pitches I would considered "off-speed".

    A rise ball, hard cruve (sort of like a slider in baseball) or hard screw ball would all be movement pitches but I wouldn't consider them off speed.

    It seems in softball though that a slow movement pitch is seperated from the CU/FB as a pitch that is somewhere in between the two in velocity so maybe I just don't know the softball terminolgy as well as I do the baseball jargon.

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    I can talk softball all day Coachmom's Avatar
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    My DD throws a backhand changeup and an off speed curveball.
    Her off speed curve ball is thrown just like her hard curve but with 2 knuckles tucked into the ball.
    The change is about 38 mph and off speed curve is about 45 and the hard pitches are 59-60.
    It's a very effective combination when called correctly. Hiding the ball well and selling the pitch are definitely key.

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    I eat, sleep and breathe softball starsnuffer's Avatar
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    An off speed pitch is simply a "slower" version of any other pitch. If the kid has a great drop ball, then having an off-speed version of that same pitch is a great tool for the toolbox. If the pitcher doesn't already have a drop ball, but has an "off-speed drop", then she doesn't really have an off-speed pitch, she just has a really slow drop ball.

    Change-ups are called change-ups because they look like a fastball (or another pitch) but come out very different and usually much slower.

    An off-speed pitch is pretty easy to do in softball, and is usually a result of just holding the ball deeper in the hand with a lot more skin in contact. The trick here is practicing enough so the new release point becomes ingrained memory. The pitcher still needs to be able to hit their spots with both full speed and off-speed versions of the pitch, and do so on command the first time.

    -W

  8. #18
    gvm
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    here's what i was thinking... and let me know if i'm on the right track? my dd has been working on her drop. and basically when her mechanics are really going good her low fastball automatically drops. and sometimes i will tell her "more spin" and as a result her dropball will drop even more, and because she's trying to spin the ball more, the velocity goes down a little. would that be considered an off-speed drop??? i don't know what a backdoor curve is? or a knuckle curve? so i think our options maybe limited...

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    Softball Junkie FPMark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gvm View Post
    here's what i was thinking... and let me know if i'm on the right track? my dd has been working on her drop. and basically when her mechanics are really going good her low fastball automatically drops. and sometimes i will tell her "more spin" and as a result her dropball will drop even more, and because she's trying to spin the ball more, the velocity goes down a little. would that be considered an off-speed drop??? i don't know what a backdoor curve is? or a knuckle curve? so i think our options maybe limited...

    IMO, yes. More spin+ less speed= more movement, or "off speed". Most good movement pitches are off speed pitches. Faster than a change up, but not as fast as a fastball. Very effective, especially with a good FB and CU.

  10. #20
    Softball Junkie CoachFP's Avatar
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    Most good movement pitches are off speed pitches.

    FPMark, you can't really believe that can you? The ball will move with a combination of the right spin and spin revolutions and the resistance of the air, which is greater when the ball is thrown harder. If you are talking about gravity aided pitches then I might see your limited point.

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