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Thread: Hip Rotation

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    Super Moderator sluggers's Avatar
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    Getting square to the plate has nothing to do with her pitch. The ball should be gone, while she is open to the power line. Pitch and then, square to protect yourself and field the ball
    Agree with Amy...

    Pitching is *NOT* batting. The hips do *NOT* close before the ball is released.
    Ray

    Every softball parent keeps a hockey mask and a butcher knife in their car...

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    Administrator Ken Krause's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by crystlemc View Post
    WTYA_FP_DAD -

    Sent you a pm with some info for you. Didn't know if I was allowed to post a link to Bill's site on here or not....
    Sure, there's no problem with posting a link to a site with information. Can't do it for Gucci handbags or a landscaping service, but if it's softball-related and informational go ahead.
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  3. #13
    I can talk softball all day redhawkridge's Avatar
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    Hip rotation good or bad? I believe the question should be broken into specific aspects:
    1. For the beginner, intermediate, or advanced pitcher?
    2. Are we talking about rotation from 90 degrees open back to 0 degrees closed (square to plate)?
    3. Is hip rotation compatible or beneficial for certain pitches?

    1. I know pitching coaches who preach that it's necessary for maximum acceleration...sort of.. part of the full body whip analogy. This is terrible advice to beginning and younger pitchers. Girls are not possessed of good upper body strength. When you give them the crutch of using their body so they can pull the arm thru , they will increasingly depend on it for most of their velocity. Also, the force they use to rotate to the closed position almost always makes them fall off to the right, instead of directing their momentum down the power line. Several other negatives come into play, but I want to move on.
    As the pitcher achieves a level of good mechanics, including windmill, active arm (IR), strong leg drive, and followthru, then maybe there's a time for working in a certain degree of hip rotation. I think some folks refer to it as hip snap. It's a technique of a quick turn from 90 to 45-55 degrees as the arm travels thru the IR sequence. I must repeat, this is for pitchers who have thoroughly developed the more fundamental parts of the delivery.
    I'll address points 2 and 3. in another post.
    jim

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    Softball Junkie crystlemc's Avatar
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    Well, alrighty then....

    Bill Hillhouse: House of Pitching Softball Academy

    Browse the site. Lots of good stuff on there.

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    I can talk softball all day redhawkridge's Avatar
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    On to point 2. I guess I already hit on my belief that a hip rotation to full closed should never be part of the delivery. Yes, once the pitch has been fully executed (pivot leg brought up to behind the stride leg, etc), then the pitcher can come around to a defensive posture to field her position, and that is a full closed position. Almost all beginning females start pitching using a full closed position, and some actually achieve some early success. They throw with a motion that looks like they're doing weight curls, and they fall all over the place. The drill I've seen that will really help minimize the rotation is pitching on a 4"x4" beam.
    Point 3. If you want to develop a rise, curve, or a roll-over drop (even a screw),you will find that an open hip is almost essential. If one of these pitches is delivered while closing the hip, the result will be a bullet spin or other inconsequential retotion. Having the hip open allows the hand to be positioned inside the ball (rise and drop), or under the ball (curve), or above the ball (screw) and thus getting the spin in the needed direction.
    So, it's really important if the youngster has any aspirations of being a serious pitcher who can deliver effective pitches, keep that hip closed !!!

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    Softball Junkie Screwball's Avatar
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    I don't believe in focusing on closing the hips at all even after the ball is released (unless you are throwing a curve ball later in your learning). The timing is too difficult and I spend many hours with girls who were taught to close their hips at one or both stages, just trying to get their hips to stay open BEFORE and DURING release.

    Just let the follow through happen by sliding the dragging foot to the stride leg heel. Don't worry about the rest, come to a comfortable ending position.

    The square to the field the ball position is no longer emphasized by pitching coaches or leading female softball pitchers. Getting your glove up to chest high is emphasized because balls that hit you high cause more damage than those hitting your legs.

    I would not characterize the motion by being female or young or at a certain level or lack of upper body strength. It is basically the same approach for all. Legs do much of the work no matter what or we would not leap and drag.

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    Softball Junkie SoCalSoftballdad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Screwball View Post
    Legs do much of the work no matter what or we would not leap and drag.
    If you are suggesting that the legs make up more than 50% of the speed of a pitch, I would disagree. IMO, while the legs are very important in pitching, the fast arm circle and arm whip (IR), account for the majority (greater than 50%) of pitch speed. To check this, have your pitcher do drills using her upper body only (e.g. T drill using the full arm circle). I'm always amazed at how much speed and spin can be generated without an active lower body. Lastly, if you are correct, than someone like Cat Osterman throwing 60mph in her full leap and drag motion could only produce a pitch of 30mph using her upper body only? I would bet that she would do a lot better than 30mph.

  8. #18
    Super Moderator sluggers's Avatar
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    IMO, while the legs are very important in pitching, the fast arm circle and arm whip (IR), account for the majority (greater than 50%) of pitch speed.
    In HS, my DD practiced with a speed gun on her for the entire session. We could see her speed after every pitch she threw.

    She would cruise right at 60MPH. If we did full frames (pitcher is fully open, feet spread, start with hands pointing at target, do a complete arm circle, and leave feet in same position after ball is released), she would throw around 50MPH. As she got older, there was always a 10 MPH difference. So, roughly 80% of her speed came from her arm, and 20% from her legs.

    But, a 50 MPH pitchers is lucky to be a backup pitcher on a bad HS varsity team, while 60 MPH pitchers are playing in college. So, leg drive is very important.
    Last edited by sluggers; 09-17-2010 at 02:43 PM.
    Ray

    Every softball parent keeps a hockey mask and a butcher knife in their car...

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    I can talk softball all day fastpitch91's Avatar
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    her hips are not driving around enough and as a result a lot of her pitches are pushing to the right (way inside to a right handed batter).
    Any help is appreciated.[/QUOTE]

    from what you say you may have it all backwards. As amy notes hips need to stay open till the hand passes the release point. sounds to me like in your encouragement of hip closing she is closing ahead of her hand, which puts her hip in the way of her arm/handand her hand moves around it releasing the pitch inside. hard to tell from written discussion but that what I see with players who struggle with staying open right at the end. Now of course the ones that erroneously close way too early torqe the whole body around and will typically throw high and outside. hopefully those two "pictures" help.

    The opther common error for inside is an arm circle that gets behind the butt and in order to make it through swings out and around and the pitch goes way inside

  10. #20
    I can talk softball all day ifubuildit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kenkrause View Post
    Sure, there's no problem with posting a link to a site with information. Can't do it for Gucci handbags or a landscaping service, but if it's softball-related and informational go ahead.
    Geez Ken I was looking for a new Gucci handbag too.

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