Thoughts on this drive out theory
- Thread starter Hank
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- Oct 6, 2015
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I can't really see it. Can you provide a link or a larger image?
Thanks.
Thanks.
- Sep 29, 2014
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The only thing I'm trying to figure out is where in the sequence this is, if this is really the drive then I would like to see when her legs bend.
I think it make some sense from a keeping back and balanced standpoint but I would think it is much more important to see what she looks like at this point.
Interesting from these still you can see Amanda is working harder and more concerned with drive given her small stature compared to Jennie
I think it make some sense from a keeping back and balanced standpoint but I would think it is much more important to see what she looks like at this point.
Interesting from these still you can see Amanda is working harder and more concerned with drive given her small stature compared to Jennie
Goal is to push hips back? Plz plz don't let my dd see this one! Omg it's taken me this long to get her hips in front of the rubber !! Lol
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Personally, I don't see what's being described as loading the leg muscles. Just try doing what's being recommended and see how loaded your quads feel, versus getting your center of gravity more forward like a sprinter.
I do like the idea of shifting backward first to start the sequence as a way to overcome inertia. It's like raising a hammer before you go to pound a nail in. You can get more power by being in motion rather than going from a dead stop. But I wouldn't say it loads the quads, which are the biggest leg muscles.
I do like the idea of shifting backward first to start the sequence as a way to overcome inertia. It's like raising a hammer before you go to pound a nail in. You can get more power by being in motion rather than going from a dead stop. But I wouldn't say it loads the quads, which are the biggest leg muscles.
I think it is a very astute comment. The bending motion on the left and the bending motion on the right provide two very different feels. The left will load your quads while the right will load your glutes. To straighten out, the left is likely to recruit lower back muscles while the right is more likely to recruit the glutes.
Glad the OP posted it.
Glad the OP posted it.
Chris Delorit
Member
Hi jryan15,
Can I make a suggestion that you re-consider the above collage as a guide for maximizing leg drive? I hope that I'm understanding your post correctly.
Ken posted an ideal hypothetical above, which involved swinging a hammer. That's perfect for at least two reasons. First, it eliminates the dead start. Second, it promotes a negative movement prior to a positive drive.
Should I be this young lady's coach, I would suggest a few simple changes to help promote more drive prowess. First, re-position the drive foot. Second, incorporate a negative full body lean in the pre-motion. Third, get those hands together up in the bread basket, close to the core for maximum drive explosion. Finally, let those knee hinges work. The big muscles in the lower body can only load explosively when the knee joints are allowed to bend naturally. Think sprinter's drive.
Can you remember a Jordan dunk, or a Chelios break-away without any explosive closed-chain kinetic energy utilizing the knee joints?
Rick mentioned his stance of the IR 90/10 speed ratio. So, staying true to his example, it's important to utilize as much of the closed-chain kinetic energy as possible. In this scenario, there is a minimum of 10% energy available beginning at the feet, that can equate to additional mph. In my opinion, that would be difficult to maximize by utilizing the images in your post above.
Chris
Can I make a suggestion that you re-consider the above collage as a guide for maximizing leg drive? I hope that I'm understanding your post correctly.
Ken posted an ideal hypothetical above, which involved swinging a hammer. That's perfect for at least two reasons. First, it eliminates the dead start. Second, it promotes a negative movement prior to a positive drive.
Should I be this young lady's coach, I would suggest a few simple changes to help promote more drive prowess. First, re-position the drive foot. Second, incorporate a negative full body lean in the pre-motion. Third, get those hands together up in the bread basket, close to the core for maximum drive explosion. Finally, let those knee hinges work. The big muscles in the lower body can only load explosively when the knee joints are allowed to bend naturally. Think sprinter's drive.
Can you remember a Jordan dunk, or a Chelios break-away without any explosive closed-chain kinetic energy utilizing the knee joints?
Rick mentioned his stance of the IR 90/10 speed ratio. So, staying true to his example, it's important to utilize as much of the closed-chain kinetic energy as possible. In this scenario, there is a minimum of 10% energy available beginning at the feet, that can equate to additional mph. In my opinion, that would be difficult to maximize by utilizing the images in your post above.
Chris
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Hi Chris,
IMO the biggest and most explosive muscle group being used when driving is the glutes. However I see lots of lower level pitchers who do not have good glute activation and they tend to rely primarily on the quads for propulsion. That's what I like about the collage, it does a good job of pointing out something that is often overlooked since it's not always obvious to see. The images on the left and right show the difference between hip hinge and trunk flexion.
Therefore I'm not so much advocating the use of this as the best drive mechanic per se. My comments are regarding recruitment of the glutes. I see the three positions as kind of early loading postures, ie all three are examples of how a lot of girls will move as they start to load. While all three positions can transition into a good loading posture with good glute recruitment, the left position is going to be much harder to recover from. The middle position is 50/50 since it will immediately be followed by a bending motion which will either be like the left (bad - bending with back) or the right (good - bending at the hips). The right position IMO has the greatest chance of glute recruitment.
The position feels a lot like this:
I agree 100%. Explosive back/forth movements are a must! I think explosively moving into the position on the right could easily lead to a powerful two-step type take off like below...
I'm completely sure that your approach would work great. I've been on both sides of the fence for teaching leaning back. I guess anymore I see it as more style than an absolute since there are many successful pitchers who don't lean back. Still it's probably one of the best ways to teach pitchers to go back before the go forward.
Definitely. I think it is important to point out that you can have good knee bend and a bad squat posture which will not incorporate the glutes effectively... It was kind of hard to find an example, but this should work.
Also a good way to analyze the knee bend is to look at their shin angle (disregard the text since it's geared towards goblin squat stuff)... The shin and hip angles are better on the left than the right. The left has ~6 degrees more shin angle than the right. Knee bend with a good positive shin angle can indicate that things are ok while mostly vertical shins are an indicator that the hips might not be utilized effectively (could be due to ankle mobility or other issues).
Agree. Again I'm just analyzing the postures. I don't think any of them would be successful without some ballistic movement into and out of the position.
IMO the biggest and most explosive muscle group being used when driving is the glutes. However I see lots of lower level pitchers who do not have good glute activation and they tend to rely primarily on the quads for propulsion. That's what I like about the collage, it does a good job of pointing out something that is often overlooked since it's not always obvious to see. The images on the left and right show the difference between hip hinge and trunk flexion.
Therefore I'm not so much advocating the use of this as the best drive mechanic per se. My comments are regarding recruitment of the glutes. I see the three positions as kind of early loading postures, ie all three are examples of how a lot of girls will move as they start to load. While all three positions can transition into a good loading posture with good glute recruitment, the left position is going to be much harder to recover from. The middle position is 50/50 since it will immediately be followed by a bending motion which will either be like the left (bad - bending with back) or the right (good - bending at the hips). The right position IMO has the greatest chance of glute recruitment.
The position feels a lot like this:
I agree 100%. Explosive back/forth movements are a must! I think explosively moving into the position on the right could easily lead to a powerful two-step type take off like below...
I'm completely sure that your approach would work great. I've been on both sides of the fence for teaching leaning back. I guess anymore I see it as more style than an absolute since there are many successful pitchers who don't lean back. Still it's probably one of the best ways to teach pitchers to go back before the go forward.
Definitely. I think it is important to point out that you can have good knee bend and a bad squat posture which will not incorporate the glutes effectively... It was kind of hard to find an example, but this should work.
Also a good way to analyze the knee bend is to look at their shin angle (disregard the text since it's geared towards goblin squat stuff)... The shin and hip angles are better on the left than the right. The left has ~6 degrees more shin angle than the right. Knee bend with a good positive shin angle can indicate that things are ok while mostly vertical shins are an indicator that the hips might not be utilized effectively (could be due to ankle mobility or other issues).
Agree. Again I'm just analyzing the postures. I don't think any of them would be successful without some ballistic movement into and out of the position.
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Chris Delorit
Member
Gotchya jryan15, nicely explained. 
Chris
Chris
