The problem with ESPN softball

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Aug 21, 2008
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Some of this may sound like sour grapes as I've never got to pitch on ESPN. In fact, I can only ever remember 1 game of men's fastpitch on the channel. USA vs. Japan... Japan won, I think. Although USA was struggling to get their best players and pitching back then (and still do).

I'm happy softball has grown, partially thanks to ESPN. Any attention the sport gets is good, right? But, what about those announcers? Scarboro and Mendoza are the only ones that make sense. Now in full disclosure I have a beef with Michele Smith. I once asked for her help getting contacts with male fastpitch clubs in Japan to invite for the World club tournament and her webmaster told me she doesn't have email. Yea right. I said, listen I'm not some stalker... I was with her at Olympic Festivals, USA camps, etc. But she's too big time.

Perhaps it's that dislike that takes over for me with "Smitty's tips" before each game which include the most obvious things: Must get ahead of hitters (gee, thanks, I planned on pitching from behind!!) Must keep the ball in the park (Yea, I planned on giving up long HR's each inning). It's absolute moronic comments like this that make her feel like a genius and dumb it down for the rest of us. Even a brand new bucket dad knows not to give up HR's and throw strikes. Don't they?

And, if I had to hear her say how much "English" was put on a ball that was spinning one more time, I was going to puke. 'That bunt had a lot of English on it'. It's disgusting.

I also think it's illegal for ESPN to say her name without it being "2 time Olympic Gold medalist Michele Smith". Ok, I get it. She was in 2 Olympics. They need to qualify her to make her comments seem smart?

Michele Smith was/is a phenomenal pitcher. Just a horrible broadcaster. Instead of Smitty's tips she could talk about things that are easily forgotten... such as pitching to the defenese? Pitching for double plays with a runner on 1st? Not letting the hitter get an outside pitch to take the other way? And for GOD'S sake don't throw a riseball with a 1 run lead after the 5th inning!!! Be boring... drop drop drop, change, drop, drop, drop. Yes, mistakes will happen but I'd take my chances with a drop than a rise with Polycore balls and composite bats!!

Yes, it bother's me that the women's team gets to go to Japan each year. The men are lucky to get a training camp. What if that was reversed? Would people be screaming Title IV? Of course.

Softball will be an Olympic sport in 2020, bank it. But what most people don't realize is, it's a one year cycle. It's not on the books to be reinstated every summer games. Only 2020 because Japan wants it... badly. And, god forbid the ISF or WBSC put men's fastpitch in the Olympics. Oh no!! Why would the governing body of world softball support both genders? One of the problems with the Olympics is countries who do not play baseball and softball (such as Greece) having to build cathedrals for stadiums (I'm told the Greek facility was amazing) only to destroy them after the games. I'm told the Greek field is a parking lot now. But think of the money that could be saved if men's and women's softball was in... it could be played on the same field. The only difference is pitching distance 46' vs. 43'. And outfield fence. Everything else is the same. One stadium, without the steroid scandals of baseball and the disgust of Olympics that MLB won't let players play in Olympics.

Most people don't realize the impact of men's FP into the women's game today. Look how many former teammates are coaching D1 programs: Oregon, Tulsa, S. Florida, Florida State, NC state, San Jose State, Central Washington, etc. Do you realize Mike Candrea said he learned fastpitch from watching the men? Men are bringing their game into the women's in droves. Yes, there are some fantastic female coaches but, the game is changing to mimic the men's game. Softball exploded for girls with Olympics and ESPN... why wouldn't the WBSC do it for the men too? It's sad.

Ok, rant over. I should nap before landing.

Bill
 

JAD

Feb 20, 2012
8,231
38
Georgia
Perhaps it's that dislike that takes over for me with "Smitty's tips" before each game which include the most obvious things: Must get ahead of hitters (gee, thanks, I planned on pitching from behind!!) Must keep the ball in the park (Yea, I planned on giving up long HR's each inning). It's absolute moronic comments like this that make her feel like a genius and dumb it down for the rest of us. Even a brand new bucket dad knows not to give up HR's and throw strikes. Don't they?

I always tell myself that there are a lot of "newbies" watching the WCWS so they "dumb down" the broadcast for them...which makes it annoying for the rest of us who follow softball religiously.
 
Dec 19, 2012
1,428
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Bill, I understand some of your frustrations. It is hard to listen to the commentators when one has more than "entry level" knowledge. Remember how stupid Curt Schilling made himself sound so the women commentators could answer the stupid questions he posed? I just turn off the sound and if something interesting or controversial pops up I rewind a bit and turn on the sound. In the IOC's eyes, Men's baseball is the partner sport to Women's softball. I wish it wasn't that way, but it is. Women's baseball has the same basic beef as Men's softball. They are also never a thought in the IOC's eyes. That being said, I wish both Men's and Women's Softball was an Olympic sport. Putting english on a ball is nothing more than imparting spin. You might not like the term but she is using it correctly.
 
Aug 21, 2008
2,359
113
Lenski, first... I know what English is. I think she over uses the term. Again, I admit my dislike for Michele.

You're right, softball and baseball partnered. But WHY???? Olympics doesn't want baseball... the fields are massive and expensive. Why wouldn't the ISF, world governing body fight for their own sport?????????????

Bill
 
Dec 19, 2012
1,428
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Sorry Bill, I didn't mean to suggest you did not know what english meant. I could tell you didn't like the term. I was just pointing out that at least Michelle was not using the term incorrectly.

I am on your side. I think the Olympics should have both Men's and Women's Softball. Only one venue is needed, and it is a much smaller and cheaper venue to build.
 

sluggers

Super Moderator
Staff member
May 26, 2008
7,133
113
Dallas, Texas
Michelle Smith...what can be said that hasn't already been said? She was one of the finest female softball players ever, and knows how to play the game better than I ever will. However, she can no more teach softball than a well-trained ferret.

Reminds me of a Willie Mays story. An acquaintance of mine was a utility infielder and was in "the show" for a few years. He played (well, held down the bench) for the SF Giants. Mays was giving batting instruction one spring season. The guy said Willie couldn't teach...because Willie was such an incredibly talented athlete that he never really thought about hitting...or throwing...or catching...or running. He just "did it". So, his instruction consisted of "hit it harder" or "be looser".

Of course, takes nothing away from Willie Mays being one of the greatest baseball players ever.

I think that is the way it is with Michelle...she was so good that she never spent time thinking about "how" and "why".
 
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marriard

Not lost - just no idea where I am
Oct 2, 2011
4,312
113
Florida
Sorry Bill, I didn't mean to suggest you did not know what english meant. I could tell you didn't like the term. I was just pointing out that at least Michelle was not using the term incorrectly.

I am on your side. I think the Olympics should have both Men's and Women's Softball. Only one venue is needed, and it is a much smaller and cheaper venue to build.


I hate to say it, but woman's softball needed the playing reach of men's baseball to get added back in. Men's Fastpitch doesn't have the reach to make a substantial difference in the discussions that were happening. And TV wise, they know they can get eyeballs for men's baseball and woman's softball... that cannot be said for mens fastpitch at this point (unless you are Australian or from New Zealand)

And Michelle as a commentator... yeah, I understand how you feel. It is the equivalent of listening to Bill Walton talk basketball. You are always like "How can you know so little about the game and yet were so good at it?". I have seen the "What are you talking about?" look on Jessica Mendoza's face when she has been on screen with Michelle talking.

On the other hand I really like when Amanda Scarborough is on. She does a great job.
 
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Aug 21, 2008
2,359
113
I hate to say it, but woman's softball needed the playing reach of men's baseball to get added back in. Men's Fastpitch doesn't have the reach to make a substantial difference in the discussions that were happening. And TV wise, they know they can get eyeballs for men's baseball and woman's softball... that cannot be said for mens fastpitch at this point (unless you are Australian or from New Zealand)

And Michelle as a commentator... yeah, I understand how you feel. It is the equivalent of listening to Bill Walton talk basketball. You are always like "How can you know so little about the game and yet were so good at it?". I have seen the "What are you talking about?" look on Jessica Mendoza's face when she has been on screen with Michelle talking.

On the other hand I really like when Amanda Scarborough is on. She does a great job.


Marriard, here is where your argument fails. MUCH of the reason softball was eliminated was because of baseball. Steroid scandals, MLB'ers not playing, cost of stadiums etc. Softball was ALWAYS popular and from a COST perspective, men's FP would be cheaper. The Pan Am games has a 15 person roster for men and women... ISF World is 17. Compare that to 25 or more players for baseball. In an age when Olympic bidders are trying to make a profit, baseball is on the losing end of this one.

As much as I want to fight on on the men's FP having the reach and pull for numbers... Softball was not the sport it is today until the 1996 Olympics. That escalated it. And if I work for the ISF and my job is to promote softball I would not team with baseball. That seems contradictory. Again, it's different for 2020 being in Japan but, AGAIN I SAY THIS: people need to realize the upcoming vote is ONLY for 2020, it's not to reinstate softball for good!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 2024 we could be right back to where we are now with the "back softball" campaign and how little Sally's dreams were crushed because softball was removed. EVERYONE thinks their sport is the best and should be in the Olympics. So, a lot of sports people get crushed each year when they are rejected.

Sluggers, totally agree. Michele has probably forgot more about the game than most. But I don't agree with dumbing it down. The play by play could do the stuff Michele does. But she should be commenting on pitch selection to batters in the box, situational pitching (trying to not let hitters hit behind the runner) etc. Pam Ward can do all that other stuff.

Lenski, did you ever notice how much she says "amount of English" on the ball? But you almost never hear that in baseball. It'll be one of those things you think about now every time she's on. ha ha.

Bill
 
Jul 22, 2012
10
0
Again, it's different for 2020 being in Japan but, AGAIN I SAY THIS: people need to realize the upcoming vote is ONLY for 2020,

2020 being in Japan is reason enough that men's fastpitch wouldn't even be considered and possibly laughed at if the ISF even suggested it. Japan LOVES their baseball. Japan LOVES their women's softball. Men's fastpitch is not as popular for them. Not knocking men's fastpitch at all. Just saying if you were the ISF and trying to get your sport in the olympics, even if it's only a one time thing, you would play in to the interests of your host country. I know ISF is both men's and women's softball, however the fact that Japan beat USA in the olympics and took gold still burns a lot of people, and those people are waiting for that rematch. If they have to include baseball to get that rematch, they'll do it. Baseball with or without the MLB and steroids sells more tickets in Japan's olympics than men's fastpitch. Right or wrong, money and marketing talks a lot more these days.

I think it would be interesting for the ISF to make a push for men's fastpitch, however if they market anything like the NPF, they are in trouble. 😳😳

As far as baseball being the opposite of softball in the eyes of the IOC, that's starts in little league in America. Boys play baseball, girls play softball. I have no idea how other countries are, but here is a guy says he plays softball, it's in a church slow pitch league after work.
Once again not knocking men's fastpitch. I find the sport fascinating, and you can't deny what it's done for women's softball, just pointing out the obvious American culture.
 
May 30, 2013
1,442
83
Binghamton, NY
Lenski, did you ever notice how much she says "amount of English" on the ball? But you almost never hear that in baseball. It'll be one of those things you think about now every time she's on. ha ha.

Bill

sounds like a good drinking game to play!

(LiningUpShotsOfLagavulin)
 

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