Overuse

GoCaboNow · Jun 22, 2016

Classof2020 said:
My DS pitches in HS and when he throws 90+ pitches his arm is wiped. He is sore and arm is tired and is glad that he can't pitch the following day. He has a great pitching coach and I have no concern that there is a problem with his mechanics it just seems to be a difference in style in my opinion. Completely different from by DD. I haven't counted but I would guess that last tourney weekend we are talking about 400 pitches between 2 full games, 3 partial games and warm up pitches. Heck it could be 600.

Agreed. Last Saturday dd had an 8am game so she did 50+ warm up pitches to make sure she is awake. Then she was supposed to pitch the 3rd game but we had a 2 hour thunderstorm delay so she had to get warm all over again. Just before the game more thunder so we wait an hour and she has to get warmed up a 3rd time. I bet she threw 150 just warmup pitches on Saturday to go with two five inning games. Warmed up twice on Sunday for a close and then a full game.

SoCalASABlue · Jun 22, 2016

Sweet Lou said:
IDK, it seems like a catch-22. To be the "best baseball pitcher" and get noticed you need to throw...A LOT. But if you throw...A LOT even with proper mechanics I'm guessing the risk of injury goes way up.

I agree it's a difficult position to be in, especially if a pitcher wants to be noticed. I just find it curious (based solely on anecdotal "heard former major league pitcher say it" during a game - obviously I'm not Dr. James Andrews

) that since baseball has gone more to pitch counts, specialists instead of starters, and the five man starter rotation, there have been more - not fewer - serious arm problems than when (back in the day) pitchers threw bullpens every day in between starts.

Sweet Lou · Jun 22, 2016

SoCalASABlue said:
I agree it's a difficult position to be in, especially if a pitcher wants to be noticed. I just find it curious (based solely on anecdotal "heard former major league pitcher say it" during a game - obviously I'm not Dr. James Andrews ) that since baseball has gone more to pitch counts, specialists instead of starters, and the five man starter rotation, there have been more - not fewer - serious arm problems than when (back in the day) pitchers threw bullpens every day in between starts.

I don't know if there really are more. "Back in the day" those arm injuries ended a players career. Today, numerous players at the professional level have had more than one TJS and it is not terribly uncommon to hear of a high school player going through TJS. It could also be that today's news cycle reports these things a lot more than "back in the day", especially below the MLB level.

dbronstein · Jun 22, 2016

SoCalASABlue said:
I agree it's a difficult position to be in, especially if a pitcher wants to be noticed. I just find it curious (based solely on anecdotal "heard former major league pitcher say it" during a game - obviously I'm not Dr. James Andrews ) that since baseball has gone more to pitch counts, specialists instead of starters, and the five man starter rotation, there have been more - not fewer - serious arm problems than when (back in the day) pitchers threw bullpens every day in between starts.

The issue is that they are throwing more pitches as kids. Back in the olden days when I grew up (the 80s), the season was about 20-25 games at the most. Then the best players got picked to be on the travel team, and that was maybe another 15 games. And that was it - no full time travel teams, fall ball, or winter workouts. Nobody gave a thought to pitch counts, but there were so few games it didn't matter. Even in HS, there were no off-season activities because a lot of the players played other sports.

Today, kids are playing 100-150 games a year. Even when coaches monitor the pitch counts, the kids are throwing many more pitches because they are playing in many more games and practicing year-round. Then they get to HS, and even with coaches there who watch pitch counts, most of the players are practicing year-round. So again, they are throwing more pitches overall. It doesn't matter how careful the MLB teams are with them, the arm damage is done long before they get drafted.

Hillhouse · Jun 24, 2016

I followed the teachings of Budda and Bruce Lee's Zen on this one when I was a kid. "When I'm hungry I eat. When I'm tired, I sleep. When I have to go potty, I go potty. When I feel like pitching, I pitched." I had it in my heart to want to do it every day. And if I wasn't capable of doing it, I dreamed about it. Winters in Erie PA are tough, finding locations is impossible at times but I threw every chance I got. And anyone... spare me the "Male vs. Female" argument. I'm talking about when I was 12-17 years old, just like any girl pitcher. My body had not developed yet and anyone who's seen me in person knows, I didn't use muscle to pitch.

I have a theory, and it's just a theory, that the majority of overuse injuries are caused by the parents who push. If the girl has it in her heart, she will do something every day to improve. If not, pushing her is going to make her do it in lazy fashion where injuries creep in. I would choose when I pitched, not my father. I really believe the "over use" injuries are, in many cases, because of poor mechanics used by a girl who doesn't want to pitch that day. Maybe her boyfriend dumped her, maybe somone posted something about her on Facebook, maybe she got a bad grade, anything can contribute to not wanting to do it. And you can't put a good edge on bad steel. So, make sure it's HER that wants to throw year round.

Bill

grcsftbll · Jun 24, 2016

Hillhouse said:
I followed the teachings of Budda and Bruce Lee's Zen on this one when I was a kid. "When I'm hungry I eat. When I'm tired, I sleep. When I have to go potty, I go potty. When I feel like pitching, I pitched." I had it in my heart to want to do it every day. And if I wasn't capable of doing it, I dreamed about it. Winters in Erie PA are tough, finding locations is impossible at times but I threw every chance I got. And anyone... spare me the "Male vs. Female" argument. I'm talking about when I was 12-17 years old, just like any girl pitcher. My body had not developed yet and anyone who's seen me in person knows, I didn't use muscle to pitch.

I have a theory, and it's just a theory, that the majority of overuse injuries are caused by the parents who push. If the girl has it in her heart, she will do something every day to improve. If not, pushing her is going to make her do it in lazy fashion where injuries creep in. I would choose when I pitched, not my father. I really believe the "over use" injuries are, in many cases, because of poor mechanics used by a girl who doesn't want to pitch that day. Maybe her boyfriend dumped her, maybe somone posted something about her on Facebook, maybe she got a bad grade, anything can contribute to not wanting to do it. And you can't put a good edge on bad steel. So, make sure it's HER that wants to throw year round.

Bill

I think there's something to this. Not 100% of the time but sometimes at least. You can usually tell watching a team practice or play which girls want to be there and which ones are probably just there because their parents are making them.

smddad · Jun 24, 2016

ArmyStrong said:
I know of two teams that went deep into Sunday at the Valley Invite with essentially one pitcher. We're talking 5-6 games straight. That's after pitching 3 pool games on Saturday. My thoughts went quickly from amazed to concerned in a split second.

How many of them rolled into the ASA 16 or 18G qualifiers that started the next day?

Dial · Jun 24, 2016

Hillhouse said:
I followed the teachings of Budda and Bruce Lee's Zen on this one when I was a kid. "When I'm hungry I eat. When I'm tired, I sleep. When I have to go potty, I go potty. When I feel like pitching, I pitched."

I think this was more from Forest Gump. Softball is like a box of chocolates.

gregc73 · Jun 24, 2016

I hate to pull the sex card, but the best baseball pitchers have to at least prepare for the possibility that they will be pitching well into their 30's. Unless you're a truly elite softball pitcher, your career is most likely over in your early 20's. The accumulated wear and tear ends a lot sooner for the women.

Hillhouse · Jun 25, 2016

gregc73 said:
I hate to pull the sex card, but the best baseball pitchers have to at least prepare for the possibility that they will be pitching well into their 30's. Unless you're a truly elite softball pitcher, your career is most likely over in your early 20's. The accumulated wear and tear ends a lot sooner for the women.

Really? Wasn't Fernandez on Team USA at 35? Didn't Abbot just sign for $1M? Michele Smith pitched well into her 30's in Japan.

The difference is, the women who get married have babies and stop playing. Men who have babies with these gals still can play.

There are more opportunities for men to play later in life but I don't think that's a sex issue in regard to bodies.

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. There are men who retire early for various reasons too.

Bill

Overuse

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