Wrong leggedness of the leap

FiveFrameSwing said:

I would hope RH pitchers are using their left leg.

See earlier post replying to PC .....

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Not really the point. Of course you USE both legs. But for a right hander, the natural position to leap out or up is to use your left leg to jump from (loses contact last). Try both and feel the difference, report back what you find and you will probably understand better what is being discussed. Constantly learning.

Interesting observations from everyone. Kinda like what Coach Q is bringing to this site nowadays...

Leg dominance is a bugger, no doubt. Single-leg plyo work will work wonders. It's less to do with coordination than most think... it has more to do with association of activity as JJ points out... and then some to do with knee stability. Pistol squats (performed slowly) will illustrate this pretty well... looking for the stability differences in the knee.

The latest drills work well... as they help the athlete develop the context needed to perform the activity while pitching. Using a creative license with those drills is ok, too... meaning, don't hesitate to evolve the drills into a closely mirrored pitching motion.

Back to association... our body has learned to load, stretch, and fire off of a single leg... and therefore, it's a much more coordinated movement with our dominant leg. The key here is to understand what some of the possible motions available offer your DD... and take the one that leads to a PROPERLY TIMED SEQUENCE OF LOAD, STRETCH, FIRE. Although you all know I prefer striking the front of the plate with the drive foot... there is some merit in a rocker style... and is a consideration with those that have a significant leg dominance issue. They lack coordination with loading, stretching, and firing... and could benefit more from a slower rocker-type load while their body makes the transition in learning to sequence a push from the non-dominant knee. Remember, this is an association it is not familiar with. Once she is... I recommend you go to the far superior strike... never grow comfortable with creating energy.

If the last part confused anyone... think action vs reaction (in the drive leg). The action is loading... or the knee receiving the body weight. With striking, it's immediate (the impulse is shortened). With rocking... it's very gradual (the impulse is longer). The "reaction" is where the association wins out. Natural sprinters don't have the issues JJ is seeing. Both knees know how to react to the action of striking, quickly. Runners, however, tend to always strike heel-to-toe when running... and this is the association (reaction) that the lesser dominant knee knows how to respond to. In those cases, the rocker style is better to begin with. Again... even runners can learn to be sprinters...

Many kids stride out... as opposed to push out. All this requires is that the drive leg posts... while the stride leg, strides. A kid with good drive mechanics has the knee stability/strength/coordination to quickly respond to the strike against the rubber, with extension at the knee. Shaky-legged kids deal with this force differently... their knee simply absorbs it... and they hold the flexion at the knee way too long. If you've ever gotten as nutty about this stuff as me... you'll notice that great drive mechanics pitchers start extending at the knee PRIOR to upswinging (6 o'clock, after backswinging)... and complete their knee extension before 3 o'clock. Striders, on the other hand, maintain flexion until 3 o'clock... and then extend at the drive knee, too late. The extension at their knee has less to do with force... and more to do with leg spacing.

Point being, you can teach a rocker. That's cool. It's a great starting place for those that need a little more time to develop their "reactions"... but there's always a good foot and a couple mph waiting for you when you're ready to learn to strike the front of the plate.

A good context drill I use is a variation on single leg bounds. I have the kid lean into fall... and once they most go... strike the ground with the ball of their foot and immediately jump out. Rinse and repeat, making sure that the focus is to train the less dominant leg to perform an action of power/extension at the knee as soon as the foot contacts the ground.

Hope this adds a little to the topic... and hope ya'll had a good Thanksgiving (even my Canadian students!)

I knew you would have some good insight into this JS. I can't say I understand what you wrote just yet, I usually have to ruminate a little and re-read before some of your ideas sink in. That is a function of my comprehension, not your writing of course one thing that really struck me is this line...

The extension at their knee has less to do with force... and more to do with leg spacing.

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I see it in DD and I feel it when I try to leap. I am using the drive leg to reach but not drive with my right, I leap a full foot further driving with my left leg. Left leg feels like a spring, right leg feels like a pair of scissors.

I'm sorry Java , I don't know how to set this up as a quote

Many kids stride out... as opposed to push out. All this requires is that the drive leg posts... while the stride leg, strides. A kid with good drive mechanics has the knee stability/strength/coordination to quickly respond to the strike against the rubber, with extension at the knee. Shaky-legged kids deal with this force differently... their knee simply absorbs it... and they hold the flexion at the knee way too long. If you've ever gotten as nutty about this stuff as me... you'll notice that great drive mechanics pitchers start extending at the knee PRIOR to upswinging (6 o'clock, after backswinging)... and complete their knee extension before 3 o'clock. Striders, on the other hand, maintain flexion until 3 o'clock... and then extend at the drive knee, too late. The extension at their knee has less to do with force... and more to do with leg spacing.

My question , JJ not intending to derail your original post.
Is this the reason some pitchers can continue through the drive-stride without hesatition through the the hips, while others seem to stall out and squat down to bring the distance between the knees closer to regain the leverage to bring the back leg forward.

Q, are you asking about the squat during the stride or after the plant?

Quick translation on the previous post... had a couple glasses of wine last night...

With a rocker, notice how the bend in the knee deepens a little bit just prior to push-off. That is the load and stretch. It's like standing under the rim and using both legs to jump. Just before the jump, both knees bend a little to assist it.

With a striker, notice how the knee is already pre-bent... and it doesn't bend furtber before pushing... the bend is all the load/stretch necessary. Same basketball example... without the the knee bending a little more prior. Think sprinters too... they are already loaded and don't need the "wind-up"... if that makes sense.

Single-leg plyo is the best way to train the knee. Start with stability first, then on explosive later. The single-leg squats in the redcord routine are a great exercise that deals with both.

After the plant of the stride leg. The drive leg extends beyond its ability to finish closing the gap between the knees.

JJsqueeze said:

I lost an R huh? oops....too bad you can't edit thread titles.

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You can't, but I can. That has been solved!

One thing I find with a lot of girls is that they will tend to reach with their stride leg rather than really pushing with their drive leg. They will also wait to push with the drive leg until the stride leg is already extended. As a result they don't get nearly the power they can out of their legs, and the so-called drive leg actually ends up holding them back a bit.

To help them understand how the legs work together, have them try skipping. Just about everyone knows how to do that. When you skip you don't pull the knee up and then push off. You push off as the knee is starting to go up, then continue pulling with the knee. That's the way to get the maximum height.

Now trying doing the same thing but going forward instead of up. Better timing between the legs, with the push off starting as the stride leg begins to pass the drive leg, will create a much more powerful launch.

dd was working on drive today one thing I noticed, she was getting better lean, her back leg was doing more work and staying loaded longer but her stride leg angles didn't look good so I suggested trying to point her toes up while driving out, she tried it on the next pitch but it made her lean back. Which she immediately pointed out "well that just made me lean back again" I said "I guess that's the trick trying to get in that position and still be leaning forward" I don't think that was very helpful but I really didn't know what to say? (She was doing the two step at the time). I really like the skipping analogy which I didn't read until just now but next time I'm going to try having do the skipping then skipping out, (maybe ill try it first) thank you

I was looking for a skipping video and came across this high knees skipping video. Wondering if this would be a good exercise to do to get the feeling of driving out?

http://youtu.be/_GdoirXLdXE