Two seam/4 seam /horseshoe/split finger/knuckle

There has been a lot of discussion involving the perfect 3 pitches and know 8 pitches.

Perfect 3 being DB/FB,RB, and CU.

Where do grips come into play? DD has been throwing knuckle change and 4 seamers. Should your primary pitches use varying grips to change the look of the pitch? Master 3 pitches with alternate grips for a more varied look?

NVfishing said:

Where do grips come into play? DD has been throwing knuckle change and 4 seamers. Should your primary pitches use varying grips to change the look of the pitch? Master 3 pitches with alternate grips for a more varied look?

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My DD was taught a knuckle change up when she was younger because her pitching coach at the time did not like young players who were still growing to throw a backspin change because of the growth plates in the wrist. A knuckle change can be a good pitch, but I would suggest learning a secondary change up as well. A knuckle change is not very deceptive and good batters will quickly pick up on it at the older age groups.

We are currently working a different change. Six weeks in and she's hitting the location fairly decent. The misses are typically short. I'm liking the results overall.

Both of my DDs throw the horseshoe change (14 & 17). A DI pitching coach taught my youngest DD the horseshoe change when she was at the 10U level and it worked very well for her. My older DD gave up the flip change in favor of the horseshoe when she how effective it was for my younger DD. I believe that the horseshoe is great for when a girl is young. And it is still great as they get older.

NVfishing said:

We are currently working a different change. Six weeks in and she's hitting the location fairly decent. The misses are typically short. I'm liking the results overall.

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Which one is working best?

My DD tried several change up grips, she gravitated to a stiff wrist change (basically identical to flip change but no flip). Her flip was arcing too much.

I have tried most everything and what is working for me is to break some of the mechanics on a good IR fast ball. Grip ball tightly deep in palm, let humerus pass by mid-line moving release point forward, finish across body with pink up and palm toward catcher. I teach it after they have a good mastery of the fastball and never tell them it is a change up. We are just working on a new pitch. I have them throw it as hard as they possibly can. Although they can control it they cannot get much velocity. Eventually the light bulb comes one and they realize what has happened. By focusing on throwing a pitch with both proper and improper mechanics they become very aware of which is which and it aids in their overall development. If they already have a proven, game ready IR fastball they can usually get to a game ready change up in a couple of weeks.

13YO DD's flip change grip is exactly the same as her four-seam fastball grip and she spins it around 18rps (spin direction is around 8/2 as seen by C) so it tends to move down and away from a RHB. C/U Velocity is low 40's (her fastest pitch is 54) but I do wonder if the flip may be too slow as she gains more velocity on her fastest pitches?

BTW - I have never heard of a young pitcher having growth plate issue in their wrist to throwing the flip change. DD was introduced to the flip at 7YO (she never could throw the circle change) and has never had a wrist issue throwing it.

riseball said:

I have tried most everything and what is working for me is to break some of the mechanics on a good IR fast ball. Grip ball tightly deep in palm, let humerus pass by mid-line moving release point forward, finish across body with pink up and palm toward catcher.

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This happened to us this past weekend in a session with DD's PC.

I always knew this to be true, but since we learned IR mechanics after a few years of HE,
I was very afraid to cue her to turn-out at 12:00 position, in fear of her old habits returning on her other pitches.
But the truth of the matter is her palm-up at 9:00 is so thoroughly engrained now, she was still whipping her change, and getting to a horseshoe too late (like at/during release).

So, her Change was good, but too fast in relation to her other pitches.
She had all the other aspects described above: tight grip, ball in back of palm, later release, etc.
But was still getting too much juice on the ball.

This weekend, PC said "trust me" and within about 10min she was throwing a wonderful change.
Really, really nice. All it took was turning out earlier (at 12:00 instead, of 7:00....) and magically, it was about perfect.

Rocketech1 said:

C/U Velocity is low 40's (her fastest pitch is 54) but I do wonder if the flip may be too slow as she gains more velocity on her fastest pitches?

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Let's call the CU at 42mph making it 22% slower than her fastest pitch. Assume she releases from about 38ft that means that someone sitting on her FB will swing when the ball is just over 8ft away from the intended impact point. That said I would look to dial it back to to somewhere between 15%-20% differential so they miss between 5 and 7 feet. Even is she really chucks it at just 10% less than her FB it will have them missing by almost 4 feet, which is a pretty big miss. FWIW my DD had to ditch the flip when she got to mid 60's as she just could not throw it hard enough to be effective with good hitters. And it became the one pitch of hers that a poor hitter could rip.