Snap the wrist, close the hips? - Tons of softball drills, softball tips, and advice on softball hitting, softball pitching, coaching softball, softball training, and more.

ang4yanks · 06-23-2008, 03:44 AM

Alright, ya'll, we need you to weigh in...

My husband has been told women teach differently then men. To me, the right way is the right way...I don't care if a martian teaches it.

He wants to know where the wrist is snapped and ball is released along with the body positions. It seems logical to my husband that the wrist would snap along side with hip following closely behind.

Appreciate some feedback.

Ang

kenkrause · 06-23-2008, 04:30 AM

Depends on who you talk to, I guess. I don't think it matters so much whether the instructor is a male or female. More what they believe.

I would say the wrist snap occurs at the bottom of the circle, in front of the hip rather than to the side of it. By front I mean the body is facing more toward third base as the elbow comes to a point between the back hip and the bellybutton. The forearm, wrist, hand and ball accelerate past the elbow and the wrist snaps.

Others will feel differently. There's no single answer.

bigdaddy · 06-23-2008, 01:58 PM

Ang,

You didn't say "y'all", did you?!?!

Anyway, my advice is to STUDY slo-mo video of elite pitchers and see if what the "experts" tell you matches what you see. As MarkH says...use slo-mo video as your BS detector.

I purchased a software program called Right View Pro. This program has NPF pitching models shot from consistent angles and in 60fps. I can watch the best pitchers in the world FRAME BY FRAME. I can say unequivocally, that at least 50% of what pitching coaches and experts have told me DOES NOT match up with the video!

Secondly, my DD is NOT going to be 6'2" tall or 180lbs., so I don't use women this size as a model for her. A girl that size can do a lot of things wrong and still be successful! So I study regular size pitchers like Angela Tincher, Taryn Mowatt, and the like. If you'd like some video clips of these two pitchers, let me know.

Oh, I purposely didn't answer your question! I hope you'll seek out the answer yourself.

Keith

Amy in AZ. · 06-23-2008, 02:31 PM

My release is more at my hip, than past it. But as long as the girl is consistent with strikes, she is probably OK, if it is a little higher than mine.

I study video of my own students and I watched Mowatt the most, this season.

I would like to see RVP stuff and the videos you have, Mark. How can we do that?

hernandez · 06-23-2008, 02:32 PM

Bigdaddy,

You said you have videos of some pitchers. Could you send me some at hernandez7109@sbcglobal.net

thanks

hernandez

bigdaddy · 06-23-2008, 05:34 PM

Hi Amy,

I can't email the RVP clips...copyright stuff! I have lots of clips that you can downloaded and viewed in Quicktime. The RVP stuff is great because it is 60fps which is generally twice the frame rate we usually see AND the pitchers are taped from the same point of view. Check out RightView Pro Baseball & Softball Training Software.

Keith

bigdaddy · 06-23-2008, 05:34 PM

Hernandez,

Any particular pitcher?

Keith

ArmWhip · 06-26-2008, 04:01 AM

I believe, based on the digital high speed video that I have collected, that the wrist snap plays a very small part in the fastpitch delivery. The wrist snap is overemphasised by many coaches to the detriment of young pitchers. You will never, ever, see a decent pitcher, with the wrist cocked back in a loaded position. You will never, ever, see a decent pitcher with her hand on top of the ball at the 9 o'clock position as she comes into release (unless, ironically, it is a changeup). If the wrist is not cocked back and the hand on top of the ball how can you have a wrist snap that contributes any significant speed to ball? Yet, in spite of overwhelming video evidence, coaches continue to teach 'wrist snap'. Why? It beats me!

sluggers · 06-26-2008, 07:19 PM

ArmWhip:

(1) Fastballs are only good up to 14U. After that, a pitcher has to make the ball move.
(2) To make a ball move, you have to put different spins on the ball.
(3) To put different spins on the ball, you have to use your wrist.

THEREFORE: Kids need to start working on wrist snaps at a young age.

JRW

ArmWhip · 06-26-2008, 09:38 PM

Sluggers,

Kids are told at an early age that to have a good fastball they need a strong, full wrist snap. Many girls never make it to 14U because their motion/delivery is crippled by attempting to snap the wrist hard. It is debatable how much the classic 'cock your wrist back and snap hard' motion is used in spin pitches. I have yet to see a picture of any successful pitcher, regardless of what pitch she is throwing, with her wrist cocked back as she comes into release.

06-23-2008, 03:44 AM	#1 (permalink)
ang4yanks Senior Member Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 172	Snap the wrist, close the hips? Alright, ya'll, we need you to weigh in... My husband has been told women teach differently then men. To me, the right way is the right way...I don't care if a martian teaches it. He wants to know where the wrist is snapped and ball is released along with the body positions. It seems logical to my husband that the wrist would snap along side with hip following closely behind. Appreciate some feedback. Ang

06-23-2008, 04:30 AM	#2 (permalink)
kenkrause Super Moderator Join Date: May 2008 Location: Mundelein, IL Posts: 260	Depends on who you talk to, I guess. I don't think it matters so much whether the instructor is a male or female. More what they believe. I would say the wrist snap occurs at the bottom of the circle, in front of the hip rather than to the side of it. By front I mean the body is facing more toward third base as the elbow comes to a point between the back hip and the bellybutton. The forearm, wrist, hand and ball accelerate past the elbow and the wrist snaps. Others will feel differently. There's no single answer. __________________ Mundelein Thunder 18U Danes Fastpitch Contributing editor, Softball Magazine Life in the Fastpitch Lane

06-23-2008, 02:32 PM	#5 (permalink)
hernandez Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 1	snap the wrist Bigdaddy, You said you have videos of some pitchers. Could you send me some at hernandez7109@sbcglobal.net thanks hernandez

06-26-2008, 04:01 AM	#8 (permalink)
ArmWhip Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Eastern Long Island Posts: 47	I believe, based on the digital high speed video that I have collected, that the wrist snap plays a very small part in the fastpitch delivery. The wrist snap is overemphasised by many coaches to the detriment of young pitchers. You will never, ever, see a decent pitcher, with the wrist cocked back in a loaded position. You will never, ever, see a decent pitcher with her hand on top of the ball at the 9 o'clock position as she comes into release (unless, ironically, it is a changeup). If the wrist is not cocked back and the hand on top of the ball how can you have a wrist snap that contributes any significant speed to ball? Yet, in spite of overwhelming video evidence, coaches continue to teach 'wrist snap'. Why? It beats me! Last edited by ArmWhip; 06-26-2008 at 04:21 AM.

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06-23-2008, 01:58 PM	#3 (permalink)
bigdaddy Senior Member Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 107	Ang, You didn't say "y'all", did you?!?! Anyway, my advice is to STUDY slo-mo video of elite pitchers and see if what the "experts" tell you matches what you see. As MarkH says...use slo-mo video as your BS detector. I purchased a software program called Right View Pro. This program has NPF pitching models shot from consistent angles and in 60fps. I can watch the best pitchers in the world FRAME BY FRAME. I can say unequivocally, that at least 50% of what pitching coaches and experts have told me DOES NOT match up with the video! Secondly, my DD is NOT going to be 6'2" tall or 180lbs., so I don't use women this size as a model for her. A girl that size can do a lot of things wrong and still be successful! So I study regular size pitchers like Angela Tincher, Taryn Mowatt, and the like. If you'd like some video clips of these two pitchers, let me know. Oh, I purposely didn't answer your question! I hope you'll seek out the answer yourself. Keith

06-23-2008, 02:31 PM	#4 (permalink)
Amy in AZ. Senior Member Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 198	My release is more at my hip, than past it. But as long as the girl is consistent with strikes, she is probably OK, if it is a little higher than mine. I study video of my own students and I watched Mowatt the most, this season. I would like to see RVP stuff and the videos you have, Mark. How can we do that?

06-23-2008, 05:34 PM	#6 (permalink)
bigdaddy Senior Member Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 107	Hi Amy, I can't email the RVP clips...copyright stuff! I have lots of clips that you can downloaded and viewed in Quicktime. The RVP stuff is great because it is 60fps which is generally twice the frame rate we usually see AND the pitchers are taped from the same point of view. Check out RightView Pro Baseball & Softball Training Software. Keith

06-23-2008, 05:34 PM	#7 (permalink)
bigdaddy Senior Member Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 107	Hernandez, Any particular pitcher? Keith

06-26-2008, 07:19 PM	#9 (permalink)
sluggers Senior Member Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 217	ArmWhip: (1) Fastballs are only good up to 14U. After that, a pitcher has to make the ball move. (2) To make a ball move, you have to put different spins on the ball. (3) To put different spins on the ball, you have to use your wrist. THEREFORE: Kids need to start working on wrist snaps at a young age. JRW

06-26-2008, 09:38 PM	#10 (permalink)
ArmWhip Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Eastern Long Island Posts: 47	Sluggers, Kids are told at an early age that to have a good fastball they need a strong, full wrist snap. Many girls never make it to 14U because their motion/delivery is crippled by attempting to snap the wrist hard. It is debatable how much the classic 'cock your wrist back and snap hard' motion is used in spin pitches. I have yet to see a picture of any successful pitcher, regardless of what pitch she is throwing, with her wrist cocked back as she comes into release.