Off The Shelf Drop Ball

Dave619 · Aug 26, 2015

After the "Screw the Screwball" thread my 14yo DD is going to focus primarily on her drop ball. It is her go to pitch, but she can certainly improve a great deal on it. I am looking for some clarification and guidance for you all. I have gone back thru a few older threads from DFP and videos I have. I don't want to get into the peel vs roll over drop. I would say my DD throws a "roll over drop". We are working to get that consistent 12-6 spin. I am looking for what has worked for your DDs in regards to grips, body positions, etc. and how to best achieve 12-6 spin for the most effective drop action.

In an older thread Sluggers said, "The difference is the forearm and upperarm rotation during the release phase (from 9 to 12). More forearm and upper arm rotation => more spin => more break".

I went back to one of Coach Pauly's videos with Sarah throwing her drop ball. The two main things he stresses is "a high release point with minimum release angle" In previous threads it was mentioned that Sarah Pauly doesn't throw a drop or peel but something in between. In my video, Coach Pauly describes the fingers as peeling and snapping over.

My DD will raise her shoulder some I assume to get the highest release point. I am trying to get a better understanding of the relationship between the body position, release angle, what the forearm/upper arm is doing, and the hand/grip action in order to achieve consistent 12-6 spin. Thanks!

sluggers · Aug 26, 2015

You've opened up Pandora's box. So, I'll answer your question, and then there will be about 100 replies telling me that I'm wrong.

Anyway....Rick is 100% correct about the snapping motion. (It is amazes me that Rick figured all this stuff out without the kind of high speed videos we have now. I am in awe of the guy.)

There is no "peel" drop. There is no "rollover" drop. That is all crap from pitching 50 years ago and people are still hanging onto the lingo.

No competitive female pitcher throws a "pure" peel drop. And, a pitcher cannot "roll her hand over" the top of a softball. So, what do they throw?

Good pitchers all throw the drop with some amount of forearm pronation. (I'll stay away from using IR since IR refers to the entire motion.) If the arm comes up parallel with the ground at release, it is a fastball with some down spin. If the arm stays down and pointing to the ground, you have a drop ball.

I've attached:

1) A sequence of pictures showing my DD throwing a drop. This was taken about 10 years after she quit pitching.
2) A video of her throwing a drop in a game against Purdue. (She won 6-1. She gave up 4 hits, walked none.)

Looking at the sequence of pictures, notice that the fingers of her hand are behind the ball at release. Notice that the hand, however, is down and moving in a circle. The ball is up at 9 facing 3B at 7. She then snaps her forearm as hard as she can. The result is her hand twisting in a circle.

My DD the closer she keeps her arm to her body, the tighter the spin on the ball, creating more down movement. She says that if you want to throw a drop for a strike, you have to really focus on keeping the arm tight to the body. If you don't, there is a good chance that the ball will not break and end up being a belt high fastball--which means that the ball will leave the park very quickly.

When she threw full speed at college (she started to hit in 62-65 MPH range), her arm started drifting up.

If she wants to throw a curve drop she, she allows the arm to come across her body more, although the arm is still pointing down.

2) With a drop, the trick is to have the pitch look like a fastball. So, the pitch has to "start" high. The best way to get this to get an object about the height of a lawn chair and put it about 20 feet from the plate. Then, take your bucket and lay it on the ground right behind the plate. The open end of the bucket faces the pitcher. The goal is to throw the ball over the chair and into the bucket. It is hard to do.

A good game is "drop ball bowling". Put the object between her and the plate, and set up soda cans on the edge of the plate. Have her throw over the object and knock over a soda can.

3) Here is a link to a video showing a simple drop ball drill. https://youtu.be/LDU6KNYVgEE My DD says she would do this drill to "get her drop working". Look carefully at the ball. Notice that some come up high and others stay low and go away from her. When the drill is done correctly, the ball goes up, not forward. I don't have a good explanation for the drill...I wish I did. All I know is that she swears by it. She says she would do this all the time.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/X6lMzskDTps" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Shawn · Aug 27, 2015

You know in simple terms it's all about how the ball comes off your fingers. That's how you get the desired spin.

javasource · Aug 27, 2015

PapaPump said:
I went back to one of Coach Pauly's videos with Sarah throwing her drop ball. The two main things he stresses is "a high release point with minimum release angle".

IOW, her posture into release is most important. I agree with Rick 1000%.

Watch the Purdue video above... does anyone else see the ENTIRE BACK SIDE making the effort to get forward???

If the ENTIRE REAR SIDE doesn't perform a movement into the front side... timed correctly... getting the arm to stay into the body is much more difficult. Everyone knows the ball needs to spin down, so I'm not going to beat that dead horse anymore.

Try this:

Take a 2-wheel juggs machine, set it at 60mph at 43 feet. Set it up so that one of the tripod legs of the juggs machine is facing behind (rearward), the other two to the side. Dial it in so it's throwing perfectly centered meatballs WITH DOWNSPIN (topspin). Film a few pitches from the side. The path of the ball goes up, then down. Right? (Rhetorical)

Now... take one standard brick and set it under the leg that is facing rearward... leaving the other two legs alone. Film a few pitches from the side. Compare the parabolic paths of the balls in your two experiments. They are the same, right? (Again, rhetorical).

Moral of the story: By RAISING THE REAR SIDE, the ball finished much, much lower in the zone. It went up, then it went down (see Newton). NOTHING ELSE CHANGED.

This is lesson one... and the most important lesson of a drop ball. If you're not raising the release point... thus changing the trajectory (release angle), don't pass Go, don't collect $200.

We are bipods, not tripods. We have one leg forward, one leg rearward in our real-life scenario. Get in this position, holding a softball, while facing a wall. Legs are slightly more than shoulder width apart, arms relaxed at sides, and weight equal on both legs. With a writing utensil, mark the position of the ball on the wall. FROM THIS POSITION, bring the rear leg forward so that it is directly in-line and underneath your torso (stacked), with weight over your frontside. With the writing utensil, mark the new position of the ball on the wall. Is it higher and more forward than the previous mark? (Rhetorical, again...)

In this last experiment... you raised the release point by bringing your backside INTO your frontside. NOTHING ELSE CHANGED. Your arms are still as long as they were when you started, and if you were throwing the ball... the radius of the throwing circle DID NOT CHANGE. HOWEVER, your entire mass is forward... making the distal segment EASIER TO KEEP IN TIGHT TO YOUR BODY. Think about that... when thinking about how to "keep the arm closer to the body".

So, in the paradox of which comes first... the chicken or the egg... throwing posture for a drop ball comes first, and IMO, is much more important.

Ken B · Aug 27, 2015

http://www.discussfastpitch.com/softball-pitching/14585-crop.html

FrozenRope · Sep 9, 2015

sluggers said:
You've opened up Pandora's box. So, I'll answer your question, and then there will be about 100 replies telling me that I'm wrong.

Anyway....Rick is 100% correct about the snapping motion. (It is amazes me that Rick figured all this stuff out without the kind of high speed videos we have now. I am in awe of the guy.)

There is no "peel" drop. There is no "rollover" drop. That is all crap from pitching 50 years ago and people are still hanging onto the lingo.

No competitive female pitcher throws a "pure" peel drop. And, a pitcher cannot "roll her hand over" the top of a softball. So, what do they throw?

Good pitchers all throw the drop with some amount of forearm pronation. (I'll stay away from using IR since IR refers to the entire motion.) If the arm comes up parallel with the ground at release, it is a fastball with some down spin. If the arm stays down and pointing to the ground, you have a drop ball.

I've attached:

1) A sequence of pictures showing my DD throwing a drop. This was taken about 10 years after she quit pitching.
2) A video of her throwing a drop in a game against Purdue. (She won 6-1. She gave up 4 hits, walked none.)

Looking at the sequence of pictures, notice that the fingers of her hand are behind the ball at release. Notice that the hand, however, is down and moving in a circle. The ball is up at 9 facing 3B at 7. She then snaps her forearm as hard as she can. The result is her hand twisting in a circle.

My DD the closer she keeps her arm to her body, the tighter the spin on the ball, creating more down movement. She says that if you want to throw a drop for a strike, you have to really focus on keeping the arm tight to the body. If you don't, there is a good chance that the ball will not break and end up being a belt high fastball--which means that the ball will leave the park very quickly.

When she threw full speed at college (she started to hit in 62-65 MPH range), her arm started drifting up.

If she wants to throw a curve drop she, she allows the arm to come across her body more, although the arm is still pointing down.

2) With a drop, the trick is to have the pitch look like a fastball. So, the pitch has to "start" high. The best way to get this to get an object about the height of a lawn chair and put it about 20 feet from the plate. Then, take your bucket and lay it on the ground right behind the plate. The open end of the bucket faces the pitcher. The goal is to throw the ball over the chair and into the bucket. It is hard to do.

A good game is "drop ball bowling". Put the object between her and the plate, and set up soda cans on the edge of the plate. Have her throw over the object and knock over a soda can.

3) Here is a link to a video showing a simple drop ball drill. https://youtu.be/LDU6KNYVgEE My DD says she would do this drill to "get her drop working". Look carefully at the ball. Notice that some come up high and others stay low and go away from her. When the drill is done correctly, the ball goes up, not forward. I don't have a good explanation for the drill...I wish I did. All I know is that she swears by it. She says she would do this all the time.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/X6lMzskDTps" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Sluggers, just out of curiosity, did she also stress a shorter step and a forward body lean? With the exception of stepping left and closing as hard as she does.....looks like what my DD has been taught on the drop. One comical note on the video....did that particular pitch work....seems odd to see a pitcher looking up at a pop up when they threw a drop.

Off The Shelf Drop Ball

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