Pitching question

I have seen videos on here where the pitching coaches are well respected and have big time position say the core/hip rotation is before release. My dd pitching coach says the hand/release is first then the hips? Im not sure who's right? Basically staying sideway until the ball is released

It is somewhere in between, of course the hips can and should contribute power through a torque move, but the idea of SLAMMING THE DOOR with the hips that is so common is a death sentence. Look at slo motion video of the best and note the hip action. around 45 degrees open is a good place to be at release, enough so the hips have had enough room to torque into the pitch but not enough to kill adduction and I/R.

For me, hip rotation is generally a no-teach. I prefer to focus on the overall drive, posture and release. The hips do what they do when all else is well. Like JJ, I look for the 45-50 degrees at release. Every kid is different and each needs different cues. The is no doubt that hip (torso) rotation occurs, but as already mentioned, placing an emphasis on it can be dangerous without seeing the kid.

Between "9-O'clock" and "release", there is a position I refer to as "Elbow-to-Hip".

“9-O’clock” -> “Elbow-to-Hip” -> “Release”.

At approximately "9-O'clock" the front heel is planting to create a solid base and resistance. The notion is to maintain the angle here of the shoulders and hips through “release”. The feel is of the arm leading the way, and not the shoulders or hips leading the way.

The elbow is brought to the hip to produce lower arm whip. The hip serves as a form of mini-resistance for the upper arm and allows the lower arm to whip through release. The angle of the shoulders and hips is maintained.

The ball is released just in front of the rear thigh (right thigh for a RH thrower). The feel of release will be as if you are slapping something hard. The angle of the shoulders and hips is still maintained. Resistance from the front leg is still in place.

The wrist will snap in towards the middle of the body. It is now that the shoulders and hips close naturally. You do not force this closure. The ball is gone.

Rather than focus on the hips as a source of power, think of the rear hip as serving the purpose of getting in the way of the throwing arm.

FiveFrameSwing said:

Rather than focus on the hips as a source of power, think of the rear hip as serving the purpose of getting in the way of the throwing arm.

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This is exactly backwards. Focus on a hip torque as part of the kinetic chain for power and the position for being in the proper position to assist brush will naturally follow with good posture. Focusing on getting the hips "in the way" does not give the rotation a proper location in the sequence...it means it can get there at any time as long as it gets there before the arm... So you could get the hips in the way of the arm in such a way as to kill lower body power....dangerous thing to advocate.

I also don't like the cue "elbow to hip"... If you get your elbow to your hip then you will have late I/R...

JJsqueeze said:

This is exactly backwards. Focus on a hip torque as part of the kinetic chain for power and the position for being in the proper position to assist brush will naturally follow with good posture. Focusing on getting the hips "in the way" does not give the rotation a proper location in the sequence...it means it can get there at any time as long as it gets there before the arm... So you could get the hips in the way of the arm in such a way as to kill lower body power....dangerous thing to advocate.

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Not backwards at all. As Mike White put it ... "Bottom line - hips have little to do with the delivery except to get in the way of your arm."

Don't get me wrong, the turn in of the rear hip is important .... but it is anything but an attempt to obtain a slamming gate sense of power. I'm much more interested in the lag that it achieves and the setup for whip.

JJsqueeze said:

I also don't like the cue "elbow to hip"... If you get your elbow to your hip then you will have late I/R...

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What you will have is compressed whip.

FiveFrameSwing said:

What you will have is compressed whip.

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No, you will have a hip pointer from your elbow and whip that is late..you want I/R to BE OCCURRING at brush...you do not want to start the I/R at brush...

Elbow to hip is a recipe for being TOO FAR inside the ball, having bullet spin, and losing some velocity.