Turnover Drop

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Mar 24, 2014
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Anybody know of good drills / videos explaining the turnover drop? Looking for a couple drills that are progression to actual pitching.
 
May 17, 2012
2,804
113
To each his own but I suggest Rick Pauley's rollover drop. It's neither a peel nor a turnover.

My daughter has never mastered any of them but has a great curve and change. Food for thought.
 

sluggers

Super Moderator
Staff member
May 26, 2008
7,133
113
Dallas, Texas
Send me a PM with your email, and I can send you a sequence of pictures showing the hand movement when throwing the turnover drop.

Osterman threw the peel drop.

No, she doesn't. She says she throws a peel. She has a video teaching the peel.

In games, she throws a turnover. There are a couple of videos showing her throwing the drop during a game.

To each his own but I suggest Rick Pauley's rollover drop. It's neither a peel nor a turnover.

The hand position at release are the same at release. The difference is the forearm and upperarm rotation during the release phase (from 9 to 12).

More forearm and upper arm rotation => more spin => more break

If you have no forearm or upper arm rotation, then it is a fastball.

If a pitcher has a good rise, then the pitcher does not need a great drop. She can use "middle ground".

If the pitcher uses the drop as her bread-and-butter out pitch, then she has to use forearm & upper arm rotation to get the big drop.
 
Last edited:
Feb 7, 2013
3,188
48
If you have no forearm or upper arm rotation, then it is a fastball.

If a pitcher has a good rise, then the pitcher does not need a great drop. She can use "middle ground".

A couple of things:

Not sure I agree with this blanket statement "If you have no forearm or upper arm rotation, then it is a fastball". There are different spins for a "fastball" (e.g. bullet spin vs. 12/6 spin) and they both require forearm and upper arm rotation. Conversely, a pure hello elbow pitcher with a 4-seam grip, that is taught push the ball down the circle and pull up so the back of the hand and elbow are pointed to the catcher has NO forearm or or upper arm rotation but can generate SOME top spin and downward movement on the pitch. Of course she will top out in velocity and spin rate per second compared to her IR peers as she ages.

I don't agree with this blanket statement "If you have a great rise you don't need a great drop ball". Maybe, maybe not. IMO the bigger the difference in break to your two vertical pitches (rise vs drop), the better. In fact, Hillhouse always says all you need is a great rise and great drop ball, combined with an off-speed pitch and you are golden. Said another way, why not teach maximum break for both the riseball and the drop ball. Some days, the pitcher doesn't have the best command with one or the other pitch, so why not try to get as much break (i.e. movement) that you can on all pitches?

Lastly, when you compare Jennie Finch's drop ball to Cat's there is definitely a difference in mechanics. Jennie throws a roll-over drop and gets her shoulder more into the pitch, Cat has more of a classic peel drop release similar to Yukiko Ueno. With that said, slo-mo video has shown that no one's hand actually rolls over the top of the ball during a "roll over drop" and no one is actually peeling up the back of the ball during the "peel drop". At the end of the day, a 12/6 spin drop ball, is a drop ball, no matter what anyone wants to call it.
 
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sluggers

Super Moderator
Staff member
May 26, 2008
7,133
113
Dallas, Texas
In fact, Hillhouse always says all you need is a great rise and great drop ball, combined with an off-speed pitch and you are golden.

Well, if you just want to make up a wish list, throw in a 70 MPH fastball...

I only know of one pitcher (Cat Osterman) who has a great drop, rise and change.

Maybe there is another one out there somewhere, but I haven't seen her.

Said another way, why not teach maximum break for both the riseball and the drop ball.

Because the pitcher doesn't have the time to master both.

It takes a lot of work to learn the mechanics of throwing a drop or rise. But, so what? Throwing a pitch with a lot of movement is *NOTHING*. It is a parlor trick.

The pitcher has to learn control of the breaking pitch. By the time a kid learns how to really throw a breaking pitch and develops control, she is 18YOA and heading to college. Four years later, her career is over.

With that said, slo-mo video has shown that no one's hand actually rolls over the top of the ball during a "roll over drop" and no one is actually peeling up the back of the ball during the "peel drop"

I agree. The names of the pitches do not make sense with the actual throwing of the pitch.
 
Last edited:
Feb 7, 2013
3,188
48
Because the pitcher doesn't have the time to master both.

It takes a lot of work to learn the mechanics of throwing a drop or rise. But, so what? Throwing a pitch with a lot of movement is *NOTHING*. It is a parlor trick.

The pitcher has to learn control of the breaking pitch. By the time a kid learns how to really throw a breaking pitch and develops control, she is 18YOA and heading to college. Four years later, her career is over..

In my area, kids start pitching at 7YO and many take lessons (my DD did). By the time they have pitched for 5 years with a 4-seam fastball (precursor to the peel drop) and change-up, they have gotten fairly proficient at these 2 pitches and start learning a rise ball by 12YO. I don't see it as too much of a stretch to think that a dedicated pitcher could be VERY effective by high school with a rise, drop and change-up. Not all kids are created equal but with the right instruction, dedication, and practice these kids should be able to have some great command of their pitches. If not, at least they challenged themselves to get better each week, month, year...with all of their pitches.
 
May 22, 2014
3
1
utah
We've messed around with the drop ball quite a bit this spring and summer and can't get the peel to look any different than the fastball. For some reason the turnover drop appears to break more but it is 2-3 mph slower. I don't know if the perceived break is from more spin, the slower speed, or both. To practice it we just use a taped ball and reverse chain it back focusing on the 12-6 axis. In games it usually produces a weak ground ball because the hitters are out in front, if she hangs on too long or imparts some bullet spin it gets hammered.
 

JAD

Feb 20, 2012
8,231
38
Georgia
I don't agree with this blanket statement "If you have a great rise you don't need a great drop ball". Maybe, maybe not. IMO the bigger the difference in break to your two vertical pitches (rise vs drop), the better. In fact, Hillhouse always says all you need is a great rise and great drop ball, combined with an off-speed pitch and you are golden. Said another way, why not teach maximum break for both the riseball and the drop ball. Some days, the pitcher doesn't have the best command with one or the other pitch, so why not try to get as much break (i.e. movement) that you can on all pitches?

The beauty of a rise and drop ball is that they do not need a lot of movement to be effective, 3-4" of late movement is all a pitcher needs. A softball bat is 2 1/4" wide and the sweet spot is @ 6-8" long. This is why North/South movement can be more effective than East/West.
 
Feb 21, 2013
77
0
I am curious what exactly this "upper arm/forearm movement" looks like. My DD is working diligently to master the roll over drop, but I don't think I've heard this discussed or seen it before. It could be the missing piece to her puzzle. Any good gifs by any chance??

Thanks in advance...
 

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