DD struggling to get palm up.

IMO a mental image of getting to the 6-o’clock position with the “hand behind the ball” often leads to more of a ‘push’ than a ‘pull’. Such a mental image results in what we see here ... i.e., preparing to get the "hand behind the ball".



Having a mental image of having the “hand inside the ball” just prior to the 6-o’clock position AND an understanding that getting “behind the ball” is simply a result of forearm rotation (pronation) ..... can be helpful in alleviating this issue.



From this position there needs to be an understanding that the hand will get “behind the ball” simply as a result of forearm rotation. There is no need to physically attempt to get "behind the ball" prior to this. Neither is there a need to maintain a hand orientation that would be "behind the ball" after release.

Many pitchers seem to have a mental image of getting their hand “behind the ball”. Such a mental image is acted upon early in the windmill motion. Teach a pitcher to rely on the rotation of the forearm to get “behind the ball”, and then it is simply a matter of “catching the whip” (BM term that I found useful).

FiveFrameSwing said:

Personally I like the cue of "hand inside the ball" ....... with the reference position being just before 6-o'clock.

Feel the cue helps promote what is described here as IR. Helps promote the elbow leading the hand and the resulting whip.

Obviously, the opposite, "hands outside the ball" .... results in de-sequencing and is a good cue for throwing a change-up.

Click to expand...

Sorry, been busy at tournamet and real job. So you think bypassing the 9 o'clock visualization in favor of a later one would be helpful. I think that's what you are saying. I like the concept and am trying to feel it as a movement thought. It seems that one would have to envision the release prior to the IR phase instead of at the same time. So, if DD uses a cutting release as is common on this board, would you tell her to begin the release earlier? Not worry about her 9 o'clock position, but get to hand inside just prior to "snap"?

Pull the ball down into whip.

coachbob said:

Sorry, been busy at tournamet and real job. So you think bypassing the 9 o'clock visualization in favor of a later one would be helpful. I think that's what you are saying. I like the concept and am trying to feel it as a movement thought. It seems that one would have to envision the release prior to the IR phase instead of at the same time. So, if DD uses a cutting release as is common on this board, would you tell her to begin the release earlier? Not worry about her 9 o'clock position, but get to hand inside just prior to "snap"?

Click to expand...

I don't have a problem with a palm-up orientation at 9-o'clock ... I like it .... but is generally due to a 'lag', or lower body lead, ... it is something you 'let happen' as opposed to 'make happen' ... and tension levels come into play to 'allow that to happen'.

I would replace a mental image of trying to get "behind the ball" at 6-o'clock with a mental image of getting the hand "inside the ball" pre-6-o'clock as shown in the photo above. Allow the brush assisted whip to have the hand get "behind the ball". That is, the image of where I'm trying to get the hand is "pre-whip" and the "whip" is more about "throwing the ball", which by it's nature will have the hand rotating "behind the ball".

To answer your question .... yes, get the hand "inside the ball" pre-whip, and whip/throw the ball to the target.

Lose the notion of trying to "get behind the ball" .... and instead "catch the whip" [BM term].

A recommendation...

As has been stated... your DD associates throwing underhand by pushing... not pulling. We tend to fixate on the hand... when in reality, the fix lies in a physical association we make with our elbow.

Take the softball out of her hand and replace it with a small to mid-sized football... like the second one on the left, below:



Have her throw the football to you underhand... with a perfect spiral. The only way she'll be able to do this is by pulling... which will unlock her elbow and allow her to transform her push... to a pull.

Guarantee you success... and once she becomes a stud at throwing spiral football tosses, pulling the ball down the circle will suddenly make sense... to her... and then she can have her softball back.

I have helped a couple f girls successfully with this. If I can describe it clear enough here is what you can do-

1. Hold the ball up at the top of the circle

2. Imagine cutting the ball in half (half being a line running parallel to a line from second to home as a way to describe it)

3. No tell her that her thumb must always be on the the half of the ball closest to her body. It can NEVER cross the halfway point over the top or down the backside (Until of course the IR release)

DO this and she will never get behind the ball