Pitching question

The hips are more of a bi product of the core torque! But what about the guys that say its bad and leads to slam the door?

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No one with any knowledge of pitching says the hips should not close or should not rotate.

*BUT*, often newbie pitcher are told "don't close the hips". Why? Newbie pitchers rarely have problems with closing too little. They are almost always closing too much. It is a lot easier to simply say, "stay open, don't close".

Can someone tell me what slam the door is and why its supposedly bad?

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The problem with "slamming the door" is that (1) it reduces the momentum transfer and (2) it creates control issues due to the violent movement of the hips. In other words, "slamming the door" reduces front side resistance.

"Slam the door" was very popular 10 to 20 years ago. But, it is rare to see any pitchers with those mechanics today.

Can you achieve the core torque and front side resistance? Don't fall over the cliff?

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Yes...but, if your DD needs work on achieving this, then you have a high level pitcher, and really need to be talking to a pro like JJ in one-on-one lessons.

Sluggers, glad to see you back in the pitching forums regularly. Years ago, you really helped guide DD and I with great advice. Your early advice to us of simply playing a lot of underhanded catch is IMO still way underrated and should be part of every pitchers frequent activities.

sluggers said:

No one with any knowledge of pitching says the hips should not close or should not rotate.

*BUT*, often newbie pitcher are told "don't close the hips". Why? Newbie pitchers rarely have problems with closing too little. They are almost always closing too much. It is a lot easier to simply say, "stay open, don't close".


The problem with "slamming the door" is that (1) it reduces the momentum transfer and (2) it creates control issues due to the violent movement of the hips. In other words, "slamming the door" reduces front side resistance.

"Slam the door" was very popular 10 to 20 years ago. But, it is rare to see any pitchers with those mechanics today.



Yes...but, if your DD needs work on achieving this, then you have a high level pitcher, and really need to be talking to a pro like JJ in one-on-one lessons.

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What open and whats closed...opening the hips in pitching terms is closed?

I see slamming the door to mean over rotating well past 45 degrees and walking through with no front side resistance! If im understanding what I have read on here correctly.

We try to have some tilt and stick the landing with foot at 45 degrees. We try to get the core to create torque at around 8-9 oclock and meet at the hips with some brush interference and assistance.

The problem I have is the ball is gone and then the torque is taking place as well as a nice lil sideways lean with the hips popping out. I have no problem with a little bit of lean, I know some try to take the lean out all together and I don't feel that is necessary as a matter of fact i think a bit of lean is needed.

Ball Game said:

I may be wrong but I see the core and hips rotate and stop the rotation at around the 45 degree mark!

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IMO, the core torque happens prior to, or as, the stride foot getting down, not a torque after the stride foot is down. At least that is how I interpreted Rick P.

Ball Game said:

Can someone tell me what slam the door is and why its supposedly bad? Does it mean you are walking through and have no resistance?

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To me, "slam the door" is the hips are closing at the same time as the arm is delivering the ball. I like to see my DD at or around 45 degrees at release, and if the hips follow closed after the arm has passed, so be it.

knightsb said:

IMO, the core torque happens prior to or as the stride foot getting down, not a torque after the stride foot is down. At least that is how I interpreted Rick P.

To me, "slam the door" is the hips are closing at the same time as the arm is delivering the ball. I like to see my DD at or around 45 degrees at release, and if the hips follow closed after the arm has passed, so be it.

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wow...what a great gif. I would have never guessed at how similar they are in every little movement of this phase of their motions.

I think hips closing is essential, though they don't close completely (as in facing the pitcher), but this adds to the speed of the pitch. Not all speed and power comes from the arm and IR, much more comes from the drive in the legs and the hips working in conjunction with the core to "close" as the ball is being released. You need to analyze the body type of your pitcher, it isn't one size fits all...a big boned pitcher won't need to "close" the hips to have great power, but a small pitcher will need to use everything they have to gain speed and power, using lever arms, IR, leg drive and closing of the hips....

"Open" means hips are facing 3B. "Closed" means hips are facing home.

Not all speed and power comes from the arm and IR, much more comes from the drive in the legs and the hips working in conjunction with the core to "close" as the ball is being released.

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Completely wrong...about 80% of the speed comes from the arm, 20% comes from the legs. (This does not mean the legs are unimportant. It means that the arm is more important).

You need to analyze the body type of your pitcher, it isn't one size fits all...a big boned pitcher won't need to "close" the hips to have great power, but a small pitcher will need to use everything they have to gain speed and power, using lever arms, IR, leg drive and closing of the hips...

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(ah...the good old day. Going back in a time machine to before there were high speed videos...I always did look dashing in aviator glasses and a mullet.)

Oh well...back to pitching. In fact, there is a "one size fits all". There is a correct way to pitch. And, what you are describing ain't it.

sluggers said:

"Open" means hips are facing 3B. "Closed" means hips are facing home.




Completely wrong...about 80% of the speed comes from the arm, 20% comes from the legs. (This does not mean the legs are unimportant. It means that the arm is more important).



(ah...the good old day. Going back in a time machine to before there were high speed videos...I always did look dashing in aviator glasses and a mullet.)

Oh well...back to pitching. In fact, there is a "one size fits all". There is a correct way to pitch. And, what you are describing ain't it.

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To second what Sluggers said, My DD gets to about 49 from a static arm circle with no drive and gets another 5-6 miles with her leap, now admittedly she is not the most powerful driver in the world, but I doubt she is going to get another 49 from the drive so the arm circle and upper half definitely win the power contest between the upper and the lower half. Rick Pauly has also posted that Sarah gets to about 90% of her top speed just from a K type drill.

JJsqueeze said:

To second what Sluggers said, My DD gets to about 49 from a static arm circle with no drive and gets another 5-6 miles with her leap, now admittedly she is not the most powerful driver in the world, but I doubt she is going to get another 49 from the drive so the arm circle and upper half definitely win the power contest between the upper and the lower half. Rick Pauly has also posted that Sarah gets to about 90% of her top speed just from a K type drill.

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While I generally agree with you and discount WindmillPitcher's assertion that "much more velocity is generated with the drive in the legs and hips", the lower body is a very important component to generating velocity of the pitch. For example, jump up off the ground and do your "K" drill simultaneously (I have, it's not easy) and then do it with your feet firmly planted on the ground. Which technique generated more speed? With that said, sling shot pitchers back in the day could really bring it without leap and drag or a hard closing of the hips. Why is that? Because they were almost surely using great IR arm whip mechanics from 10:00 into 6:00 release.