Mr. River, thank you for the "right on" response. I'd like to comment on batsics1 reference to a "bullet spin drop". Well there is no such thing. I am not sure if you ever pitched competitively, but contrary to what gets said on here, bullet spin does not cut the air in the direction of travel and therefore will not generally move. I have heard over and over again by different posters who have attended Bill Hillhouse's clinics. Many are ecstatic over his rise ball, and rightfully so. This is because these people have never really seen a pitch move. They have sat on their buckets and followed the path of the ball and are suggesting it moves. In the men's game all the good pitchers can move the ball or they don't last long. There are very few women pitchers that learn to move the ball because they accept bullet spins and other stuff as ball movement. Very few women can make a ball move like Cat Osterman, that is why she is the best.
Bullet spin pitches / fastballs
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Mr. River, thank you for the "right on" response. I'd like to comment on batsics1 reference to a "bullet spin drop". Well there is no such thing. I am not sure if you ever pitched competitively, but contrary to what gets said on here, bullet spin does not cut the air in the direction of travel and therefore will not generally move. I have heard over and over again by different posters who have attended Bill Hillhouse's clinics. Many are ecstatic over his rise ball, and rightfully so. This is because these people have never really seen a pitch move. They have sat on their buckets and followed the path of the ball and are suggesting it moves. In the men's game all the good pitchers can move the ball or they don't last long. There are very few women pitchers that learn to move the ball because they accept bullet spins and other stuff as ball movement. Very few women can make a ball move like Cat Osterman, that is why she is the best.
Certainly there are plenty of make believe movement pitches out there but I'm going to have to call BS on your statement. I've spent a lot of time watching gold ball for scouting purposes. Your statement is way beyond exaggeration.
Actually I think no one can move the ball like Cat and yes that is one reason she is the best. Besides working very hard and very smart she has some physical gifts. It might interest you to know her first pitch was a bullet spin "fastball".
You may think my statement is way beyond exaggeration, but maybe your definition of ball movement is exaggerated. I help coach a D1 team and I see lots of games, not just those in conference and I can tell you that generally ball movement is something that is lacking in the women's game. I think the pitch that girls generally are able to throw are curve balls. I believe that is due to this bullet spin business which in the end trains them not to be able to throw drops and riseballs.
I would likefor you to explain in more detail your definiion of ball movement.Also, please tell me how throwing bullet spin trains a pitcher to be unable to throw a drop or riseball. I agree that if all you have thrown is one pitch for years and developed muscle memory over a long period of time.It could be more difficult but in no way would make the pitcher unable to throw the rise or drop.
I'm saying I see plenty of girls who control their spin axis. If the size of their break is not up to your personal standards that's certainly not something I can judge. They are, after all, your standards. What is objective is spin axis.
Mark H and CoachFP, you both are right. For every 50-5 team out there, there is a 5-50 team.
Most pitchers in college don't have a breaking pitch. Those pitchers are mauled by the good teams, and rarely play more than a year or two of college ball. Teams regularly carry 3 pitchers, and usually 2 of those pitchers rarely touch the ball.
There are many pitchers who do have breaking pitches. The ones who do have real breaking pitches are the ones coaches know and worry about.
Most pitchers in college don't have a breaking pitch. Those pitchers are mauled by the good teams, and rarely play more than a year or two of college ball. Teams regularly carry 3 pitchers, and usually 2 of those pitchers rarely touch the ball.
There are many pitchers who do have breaking pitches. The ones who do have real breaking pitches are the ones coaches know and worry about.
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- Jan 20, 2010
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Bullet spin and a curve ball. Its much easier to throw a rise from learning bullet spin than a curve if your talking about a curve and not a drop curve. Easier to keep your a hand turned and go under the ball with fingers than to cut your circle and snap acrossed with palm up. We dont throw curve much, we will though cut her rise up and off the plate. Thats usally what happens when i call a curve anyway.
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- Jan 20, 2010
- 36
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basically the way she was taught. When learning bullet spin the entire time we were working on rise ball mech. Keeping your weight back, getting under the ball. So when she would goto throw a curve, her cue was to cut the circle off and go pocket to pocket with her snap, instead of going under the ball. Now that did'nt mean shorten your circle, we still wanted to reach back, just not go under the ball. I was told what she learned came from Don Sarno. Think i spelled that right.
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Every pitch in baseball or softball is like a set of tools. A plumber doesn't use the same tools as an electrician. A mason doesn't use the same tool set as a carpenter. Mixing tools and mechanics does not lead to some imaginary improved performance, or a secret pitch! The hype about Daisuke Matsuzaka of the Boston Red Sox and the never before seen pitches with magical spin, optical illusion, and defying physics comes to mind.
A corkscrew pitch CAN NOT move, except by assistance of gravity, and no other physical factors. The bullet spin adds nothing to that particular pitch, either in movement, or effectiveness. Young players usually get into the habit of throwing a corkscrew, or bullet rotation fastball through allowing the pitch to be released off of the index finger. As the wrist snaps, the ball rolls off the side of the index finger, and this causes the ball to spin in the bullet spin fashion. More advanced pitchers can also get into the habit through learning to throw a screwball. The release is intentionally off the index finger, but the wrist snap is not fingers directly up, or palm up on the follow-through.
A simple cure for the index finger problem is a few hundred reps of curling the index finger as on a rise-ball, forcing the ball of the middle and third fingers. It will then be easy to get the wrist to follow through correctly which is straight, palm, up! If you want to watch good mechanics on a fastball, watch Staci Nelson, Team USA, on youtube.
A novice coach may think he has taught a rise-ball that has a similar spin. It can vary anywhere from a 12-6 spin, to a perfect bullet spin. Again, this corkscrew rotation does absolutely nothing to the pitches movement or effectiveness. The reason the finger is curled on a rise-ball is for the most part to force the ball out of the back of the hand, ACROSS the thumb. The ball should last touch the fat part, or meaty part of the thumb, and not roll off the thumb tip, or even out beyond the thumb tip! This causes a corkscrew action on the rise-ball. Another factor is the throwing arm elbow. It should stay in the "power-line", or line of force as I often say. If the elbow tucks in toward the belly, belly-button, or nose, causing the arm to look tilted, this is a cause and effect for the ball spinning in the corkscrew fashion.
A fastball should not be flat! It should dip, just like a drop-ball, though it will not achieve as much action as a drop-ball. On the bottom corners this can only increase swing-and-miss, or weak ground balls. If the young lady's balls don't spin rapidly, then work on wrist snap drills. Balls move away from increased air-pressure. They move toward decreased air-pressure. The spin directions when predominantly toward or against the line of force (power-line) determine which way they will move. Balls which increasingly approach a corkscrew rotation move less and less.
Coaches, don't make stuff up! Learn the proper techniques and pass them on.
A corkscrew pitch CAN NOT move, except by assistance of gravity, and no other physical factors. The bullet spin adds nothing to that particular pitch, either in movement, or effectiveness. Young players usually get into the habit of throwing a corkscrew, or bullet rotation fastball through allowing the pitch to be released off of the index finger. As the wrist snaps, the ball rolls off the side of the index finger, and this causes the ball to spin in the bullet spin fashion. More advanced pitchers can also get into the habit through learning to throw a screwball. The release is intentionally off the index finger, but the wrist snap is not fingers directly up, or palm up on the follow-through.
A simple cure for the index finger problem is a few hundred reps of curling the index finger as on a rise-ball, forcing the ball of the middle and third fingers. It will then be easy to get the wrist to follow through correctly which is straight, palm, up! If you want to watch good mechanics on a fastball, watch Staci Nelson, Team USA, on youtube.
A novice coach may think he has taught a rise-ball that has a similar spin. It can vary anywhere from a 12-6 spin, to a perfect bullet spin. Again, this corkscrew rotation does absolutely nothing to the pitches movement or effectiveness. The reason the finger is curled on a rise-ball is for the most part to force the ball out of the back of the hand, ACROSS the thumb. The ball should last touch the fat part, or meaty part of the thumb, and not roll off the thumb tip, or even out beyond the thumb tip! This causes a corkscrew action on the rise-ball. Another factor is the throwing arm elbow. It should stay in the "power-line", or line of force as I often say. If the elbow tucks in toward the belly, belly-button, or nose, causing the arm to look tilted, this is a cause and effect for the ball spinning in the corkscrew fashion.
A fastball should not be flat! It should dip, just like a drop-ball, though it will not achieve as much action as a drop-ball. On the bottom corners this can only increase swing-and-miss, or weak ground balls. If the young lady's balls don't spin rapidly, then work on wrist snap drills. Balls move away from increased air-pressure. They move toward decreased air-pressure. The spin directions when predominantly toward or against the line of force (power-line) determine which way they will move. Balls which increasingly approach a corkscrew rotation move less and less.
Coaches, don't make stuff up! Learn the proper techniques and pass them on.
