News Flash: Rise Balls don't Rise!!!!!

Someone mentioned the screwball. Very difficult to get true side spin (3-9) on the screwball to really make it break much. I too believe that the angle of the pitch is what makes it somewhat effective (most right-handed pitchers leap to the left and fall off to the right which creates a larger angle to the trajectory of the pitch) not necessarily creating break due to the great movement from side spin. All things being equal, the curve will have more break because it's easier to get true side spin on the pitch. Most screwballs for a RHP have 1/7 or maybe 2/8 spin as seen by the catcher.

The only great college pitcher in recent memory that had a very effective screwball was Meg Langenfeld from UCLA in 2010. She had pinpoint accuracy with it and threw it about 80% of the time in the WCWS. 5 years later, with the smaller strike zone and better hitting teams, I wonder how effective she would be with that one pitch?

Out in Left Field said:

the statements about screwballs are screwy at best. I could name about ten, and if you include today's pitchers, .

Click to expand...

Fitting comment coming from someone who use to post under the name "Screwball".

mm'spapa said:

I am a complete novice concerning pitching. My question is, most of us believe a curve ball curves, and a drop ball drops, agreed? Why is so impossible that with all the necessary spins, speed, etc. that a rise ball can't rise? I am not on either side of the fence on this one. The only thing is I once had the opportunity stand at the plate and an older guy who used to pitch fastpitch threw to me and to my eyes that ball "hopped" 4" or more as it was within 5' of the plate. You probably ought to know I was never a player and my eye site is not as good as it used to be.

Click to expand...

Here ya go. NASA explains it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WhXZ186FNIk

RubberBiscuit said:

There are only two words that are yet mystical in this domain => "drag crisis"

Click to expand...

Is that when Bruce Jenner doesn't know which dress to wear???

I am squarely on the "Doesn't Rise" side of the argument even after having a DD who had a great one. The one question that has not been asked in the thread is why does it appear that a riseball jumps? I have my own theory. I will post it after other have posted theirs.

Sparky Guy said:

The one question that has not been asked in the thread is why does it appear that a riseball jumps? I have my own theory. I will post it after other have posted theirs.

Click to expand...

The batter swings under the pitch because they think it will be lower and therefore they think it "jumped over the bat". It the same reason they think a low rise will be out of the strike zone low but "rises" into the strike zone. You play catch and hit 1000s and 1000s of balls over time and you get conditioned to the ball dropping. When a riseball falls less than expected it magically must have "jumped over the bat"

Rocketech1 said:

The batter swings under the pitch because they think it will be lower and therefore they think it "jumped over the bat". It the same reason they think a low rise will be out of the strike zone low but "rises" into the strike zone. You play catch and hit 1000s and 1000s of balls over time and you get conditioned to the ball dropping. When a riseball falls less than expected it magically must have "jumped over the bat"

Click to expand...

Yup!!! The brain is a fantastic thing. It does all kinds of math in the background that we never realize. When a ball is thrown at us it computes the speed, trajectory, distance, force of gravity and wind resistance in a fraction of a second and figures out the path of the ball. The other thing the brain does is anticipate and fill in the blanks of missing pieces. That is where the riseball takes advantage of the brain's anticipating things. The riseball Magnus Effect causes it to fall slower than the speed of gravity, it throws a "bug" into the calculations the brain is making. So to the brain the ball has "jumped" up because it is not where it anticipated the ball being.

This is my belief of what's happening. Take it for what it's worth. Just an opinion.

Sparky Guy said:

Yup!!! The brain is a fantastic thing. It does all kinds of math in the background that we never realize. When a ball is thrown at us it computes the speed, trajectory, distance, force of gravity and wind resistance in a fraction of a second and figures out the path of the ball. The other thing the brain does is anticipate and fill in the blanks of missing pieces. That is where the riseball takes advantage of the brain's anticipating things. The riseball Magnus Effect causes it to fall slower than the speed of gravity, it throws a "bug" into the calculations the brain is making. So to the brain the ball has "jumped" up because it is not where it anticipated the ball being.

Click to expand...

I like your explanation.

Sparky Guy said:

Yup!!! The brain is a fantastic thing. It does all kinds of math in the background that we never realize. When a ball is thrown at us it computes the speed, trajectory, distance, force of gravity and wind resistance in a fraction of a second and figures out the path of the ball. The other thing the brain does is anticipate and fill in the blanks of missing pieces. That is where the riseball takes advantage of the brain's anticipating things. The riseball Magnus Effect causes it to fall slower than the speed of gravity, it throws a "bug" into the calculations the brain is making. So to the brain the ball has "jumped" up because it is not where it anticipated the ball being.

This is my belief of what's happening. Take it for what it's worth. Just an opinion.

Click to expand...

That's why the best "back-to-back" pitch combination I have seen soooo many top pitchers use, especially this year, is the full-speed riseball with the off-speed drop. This combination has the most brain-bug inducing moments. I have been preaching on this combo for about 8 years now btw.

Sparky Guy said:

Yup!!! The brain is a fantastic thing. It does all kinds of math in the background that we never realize. When a ball is thrown at us it computes the speed, trajectory, distance, force of gravity and wind resistance in a fraction of a second and figures out the path of the ball. The other thing the brain does is anticipate and fill in the blanks of missing pieces. That is where the riseball takes advantage of the brain's anticipating things. The riseball Magnus Effect causes it to fall slower than the speed of gravity, it throws a "bug" into the calculations the brain is making. So to the brain the ball has "jumped" up because it is not where it anticipated the ball being.

This is my belief of what's happening. Take it for what it's worth. Just an opinion.

Click to expand...

It's been shown that a baseball curveball does curve, but not as much as the hitter thinks. It is part movement, part optical illusion. For a long time, baseball folks believed in a "rising fastball." That was actually debunked, with the same explanation given for the "riseball": it doesn't actually rise, it just doesn't drop as much as you expect it to.