Backswing or no backswing?

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May 9, 2014
474
0
Umatilla, Florida
Long time purker hear:)..... my dd started with an HE coach for about a year and a half. Then she broke an ankle playing basketball in PE. When that healed she broke her foot on a trampoline, that break was on the growth plate it took a while to heal, put her out of the game for about 18 months. She came back full swing last June we found a PC that teaches I/R and my dd loves her. PC directed me to this forum and I am so grateful for all the information that is on the forum! My dd would not be where she is without it! I come here daily and I'm constantly learning and my dd is improving so much. Thank you to all of you who take the time to inform! Recently PC suggested a circle start like Cheri kemf does with no backswing, the reason for it was because my dd was haveing a hard time with opening to soon, not pushing out. It seems to have helped she stays square to the catcher longer but she has lost some speed. My question is, are there any elite pitchers with no backswing? My dd tried the pushback drill today without the backswing. I couldn't get video I had to catch, but tomorrow she will throw into a net so I can take some vid. I'm wondering how important is it to have the backswing, should we add it back in? She likes no backswing but she doesn't like that she has lost speed. thanks
 
Aug 29, 2011
2,581
83
NorCal
Back swing is a style. It really doesn't add or subtract from the pitch.
Personally I prefer no back swing as it "hides" the ball from the batter longer.
That said whatever works best for your DD with respect to back swing or no is what you should go with.
Basically it comes down to what she is comfortable with and what she can easily repeat.
As for speed, that should return once she's comfortable with the new motion.
 
May 9, 2014
474
0
Umatilla, Florida
Thank you, me and her PC are thinking that her speed will return when she used to the motion also. However I've been reading javas drive mechanics and what I'm worried about is her not getting the opposing forces and correct overlap without the backswing. From what I understand the arm going back with the body pushing forward is essential for getting correct timing and posture. Thanks again for any Input
 
Feb 17, 2014
7,152
113
Orlando, FL
Back swing is a style. It really doesn't add or subtract from the pitch.
Personally I prefer no back swing as it "hides" the ball from the batter longer.
That said whatever works best for your DD with respect to back swing or no is what you should go with.
Basically it comes down to what she is comfortable with and what she can easily repeat.
As for speed, that should return once she's comfortable with the new motion.

Backswing or lack thereof is more than just a style. It affects posture and weight distribution and as such can help or hinder a pitchers overall mechanics. Some benefit from a backswing others do not. There is no right or wrong answer. As suggested your DD needs to use or not use whatever works best for her.
 

javasource

6-4-3 = 2
May 6, 2013
1,347
48
Western NY
When you are learning fundamentals... stick to movements that allow you to feel what it is you are learning. The backswing is a great teaching tool for fundamentals relative to establishing a powerful pitching sequence.

I might add that removing a backswing for purposes of 'getting open'... is *probably* the wrong focus. The movement of the arm forward during the windmill is... or should be a constant. Remember, our body opens in sequence (or should) when pitching. That sequence occurs from the ground up. Get the legs opening the hips... which will in turn open the shoulders. Once that is accomplished... address the timing of the front-side of the circle if 'opening' is still an issue.

Lastly... "getting open" is subjective, at best. Getting open to a degree helps facilitate range of motion in the shoulder socket... and the power on the back side. As long as she is plus 45-degrees during the release phase of the pitch... her degree of openness should suffice.

Say hello to your PC... and let them know we're always here if they want to toss around ideas.

Best, ~JS
 
May 9, 2014
474
0
Umatilla, Florida
I think I may have said that wrong, we removed the backswing so she would stay square to catcher on push off, her stride leg (left leg, shes a Rhp) wants to turn immediately, she was pivoting before push she fixed that but she still was opening at push. She wasn't going forward much, mostly just turning sideways. We were putting the focus on how far she was reaching out when we should have been focusing on how her push foot was pushing. I'm thinking we will do your push off and two step drill with the backswing to get feel of the power she needs to have off the rubber for a while let her feel the power and timing and then work the backswing out? If she want to? Thank you
 

javasource

6-4-3 = 2
May 6, 2013
1,347
48
Western NY
Hmm... odd... just thinking out loud here...

Most girls that I see cradling prematurely open during the cradle.

*Pivot*... cringe... ;)

If the degree that she opens her foot during the drive is identical to that which she uses when running... I'd say leave it.

Read this comically...

As far as working the backswing out... why? If you're sold on 'hiding' the pitch that much... I suppose... but I've never understood that point. Who are you hiding it from? (Zee German's?) ... and what are you hiding? Is she throwing knuckles, splits, or seriously bent-up grips? Are here fingers exceptionally long... so it's that obvious... and is her backswing that slow... whereas the 3B coach has time to relay the pitch to the batter... who happens to be focused on hitting... and is in the process of starting her swing?

I've heard the arguments before - so I know that camp... but I find it odd that those that people who have been said to be able to spot it so readily all have and train pitchers WITH backswings.

Point being... if her backswing works well... and she pitches faster... and KNOWS this... why would you waste time taking it out?

Again... this is all just conversation, so don't read my comments the wrong way... I'm just genuinely curious as to why eliminating a backswing is so important for those that DID use one... and now don't.
 
Hmm... odd... just thinking out loud here...

Most girls that I see cradling prematurely open during the cradle.

*Pivot*... cringe... ;)

If the degree that she opens her foot during the drive is identical to that which she uses when running... I'd say leave it.

Read this comically...

As far as working the backswing out... why? If you're sold on 'hiding' the pitch that much... I suppose... but I've never understood that point. Who are you hiding it from? (Zee German's?) ... and what are you hiding? Is she throwing knuckles, splits, or seriously bent-up grips? Are here fingers exceptionally long... so it's that obvious... and is her backswing that slow... whereas the 3B coach has time to relay the pitch to the batter... who happens to be focused on hitting... and is in the process of starting her swing?

I've heard the arguments before - so I know that camp... but I find it odd that those that people who have been said to be able to spot it so readily all have and train pitchers WITH backswings.

Point being... if her backswing works well... and she pitches faster... and KNOWS this... why would you waste time taking it out?

Again... this is all just conversation, so don't read my comments the wrong way... I'm just genuinely curious as to why eliminating a backswing is so important for those that DID use one... and now don't.

Just out of curiosity Java but are you a proponent of the back swing or it does not matter to you? I only ask for the point of being curious. My daughter when she throws it the best does not use much of a back swing at all.
 

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