Pitching rules: double back swing and no "presenting"

Welcome to Discuss Fastpitch

Your FREE Account is waiting to the Best Softball Community on the Web.

Mar 23, 2014
621
18
SoCal
Team faced a pitcher that had a double back swing and did not present the ball. When brought to the attention of the UMP - he said she all she had to do was touch her glove; which would have been nice if she even did that..... and would not comment on double backswing, stating this was 10U.

This isn't the first time we've seen this pitcher but her motion is new. She swings back then up to her head then back again then into full motion/windmill......

Am I nuts ( probably) but isn't that illegal?
 
May 30, 2013
1,442
83
Binghamton, NY
a pitcher can do cartwheels if she wants,
right up to the point that her hands come together, then

they must pause for 1-10 seconds
and
after hands come apart she must immediately deliver the pitch.

as long as her hands do touch, ive never seen an IP called for not pausing long enough - especially at 10U.
 
Mar 13, 2010
960
0
Columbus, Ohio
Team faced a pitcher that had a double back swing and did not present the ball. When brought to the attention of the UMP - he said she all she had to do was touch her glove; which would have been nice if she even did that..... and would not comment on double backswing, stating this was 10U.

This isn't the first time we've seen this pitcher but her motion is new. She swings back then up to her head then back again then into full motion/windmill......

Am I nuts ( probably) but isn't that illegal?

My question would be what exactly do you mean by "presenting the ball"? The reason I ask is that the term "present the ball" doesn't appear in the rule book, thus has no definition under the playing rules. What movement or action do you think the pitcher was missing that is required by the rules?

The double backswing is definitely illegal. Once the arm goes back the first time, when it comes forward again the pitcher is required complete the pitch. What you describe would be considered as a reversal of the pitching motion.


a pitcher can do cartwheels if she wants,
right up to the point that her hands come together, then

they must pause for 1-10 seconds
and
after hands come apart she must immediately deliver the pitch.

as long as her hands do touch, ive never seen an IP called for not pausing long enough - especially at 10U.

Cartwheels might be a bit much, because her feet would definitely be losing contact with the pitcher's plate! :p

The rules don't require the pitcher to pause 1-10 seconds. They do require the hands to come together, but they may be in motion when they do. No pause required.

As an interpretational point presented to umpires, we are usually told that merely touching the hands together satisfies the minimum of one second of contact.
 
Last edited:
Jun 22, 2008
3,731
113
Bretman beat me to it, nothing in the rules requires the pitcher to "present" the ball. Also, nothing in the rules requires the pitcher to pause after the hands come together (except IFS), the hands may be in motion when they come together and may remain in motion. And as stated, the double arm backswing is illegal.
 
Feb 17, 2014
7,152
113
Orlando, FL
Presenting the ball has been stricken from all rulesets that I am aware of for quite some time. But it's legacy remains. Once the hands come apart (break) the pitch begins and must be completed. Once the hands come apart you are allowed one (1) reversal of the arm motion.
 
Feb 17, 2014
7,152
113
Orlando, FL
Bretman beat me to it, nothing in the rules requires the pitcher to "present" the ball. Also, nothing in the rules requires the pitcher to pause after the hands come together (except IFS), the hands may be in motion when they come together and may remain in motion. And as stated, the double arm backswing is illegal.


Many pitchers initially struggle with this when transitioning to IFS. I would like to see this is a standard and make the "take the sign or simulate.." removed as it accomplishes the same thing and is easier to regulate.
 
Mar 23, 2014
621
18
SoCal
Pitcher's hands never came together - with or without a pause.

I need to get my hands on the rules because this is the second time we've had an IP that has nothing to do with the pitcher's feet. In another game....pitcher starts her "load" by swinging up, holds hands in the up position (over her head) for a few seconds than backswings and completes her pitch. That's a breaking her motion. I'm not looking for the he UMP to call the IP but at least educate and have it stopped.

Where can I get a copy of recent ASA rules?
 
Jun 22, 2008
3,731
113
If the pitcher is swinging her hands up and holding them over her head prior to separating the hands I see nothing illegal with that. As for the asa rules they are not available online. Most of the rulesets are very similar, the usssa rules are available as an online download, you can read through those.
 

Forum statistics

Threads
42,830
Messages
679,473
Members
21,443
Latest member
sstop28
Top