all I can say is wow ...

I saw 2 pitchers in my DD's varsity game tonight and they are as follows

Pitcher #1 was about 5'9 and weighed about 120 pounds

mechanical flaws

1- no arm flexion at all her arm was loose though
2- leaned toward third heavily
3- cleared her but out of the way
4- no adduction at all
5- no part of her arm ever contacted any other part of her body let alone not having any brush
6- her follow through stopped immediately after release

Plus's in her pitching

Her pronation was absolutely perfect in all ways
She constantly hit 58-60 mph on both her fast and riseball but threw no other pitches that I noticed

pitcher #2 was about 5'1 and weighed about 110 pounds

mechanical flaws

1- None noticeable to the naked eye

Pluses in her pitching

Absolutely perfect pronation
Threw a fast,change,rise,and a drop
hit constant 55-58 and fast and rise


I was dumbfounded at how much better the first pitcher could have been with some mechanics work

and

how well the very very small second pitcher threw period...

I would like to now there pitching coach because the way they pronated was spot on perfect...

and i do not need any one calling bull#### I carry a radar with me anytime I go to a Game I clocked them both quite a few times...

I've seen countless girls pitching that I think to myself the same as you. "Give me that girl and I can make her soooo much better."

"How much better could they have been" I heard this quote for the first time about 4 years ago at a BH clinic. Over the course of 4 years I have seen a lot of this and wondered how this could be, someone with poor mechanics throwing that hard. Well what I can say without a doubt is that, I don't see good spin at all and by that I mean spin that will create good movement. A high fastball is not a true rise without proper spin. I also wonder how much more you will see out of them as far as speed, have they peaked out? Will they get any faster with those mechanics? My daughter never threw as hard as some girls but she could locate and spin a ball. Now as a sophomore she is hitting 60/61 and continues to make gains. She has good spin and a base to get better with time and work.
In a couple of months I will know how some of these "faster" girls fared over the winter, did they make any gains or is this where proper mechanics start to take over.

Sparky, when you see that situation and it's a 16u or 18u pitcher, maybe one who is playing at a high level for her area, do you worry that making changes that would help her long term might have short term cost that would affect her immediate success?

It seems like when kids find a way to succeed despite a mechanical fault and they and the parents are satisfied with that, any change can be taboo. How do you get the "buy in" to make a change from both? Can you do that during the season?

Edited to add: Madsdad, we were typing at same time. You touched a little on what I'm asking I think.

DD faces some top TB pitcher in MS, some are just a pleasure to watch mow down our lineup.

What were the ages of these pitchers?
It's pretty rare to see poor mechanics getting over the 50-55 mph hump...that's typically where they'll max out.
Is it possible her mechanics weren't that bad, but she could have been much better had she employed some of what is explained on this site?
As to the follow though post pitch, for what it's worth, I believe this is a preference. The very best pitcher in the world (Cat Austerman) uses no finish on the majority of her pitches

Coach James,

First let's exclude what I would consider a phenom, girls throwing low to mid 60s at age 12. I saw a girl last fall throwing 65/67, she was 13. Here in Wisconsin it seems that 58/60 as a freshman is not that uncommon but 55/56 pretty normal and what I would consider slower. These 58/60 girls seem to be the girls that threw hard with no regard for "good spin" Off balance, no brush, poor drive oh and yes hello elbow. Every one of their 5 pitches is the same just thrown on a angle and these girls are also the ones that have that amazing "rise ball"
I want to see if as juniors they were able to get anything over that. I would be willing to bet that the spin is still bad. Just seems like 60 is the new 55 for girls how work hard and stick with it long enough, and most importantly GET GOOD INFO

coach james said:

What were the ages of these pitchers?
It's pretty rare to see poor mechanics getting over the 50-55 mph hump...that's typically where they'll max out.
Is it possible her mechanics weren't that bad, but she could have been much better had she employed some of what is explained on this site?
As to the follow though post pitch, for what it's worth, I believe this is a preference. The very best pitcher in the world (Cat Austerman) uses no finish on the majority of her pitches

Click to expand...

the first taller pitcher was a junior so I assume 17 the second pitcher was a freshman so I assume 14

oh and every problem in her mechanics was posture or drive related outside of haveing no flexion in her arm her IR and Pronation was perfect It was just very odd to see her throw that hard that way.

Westwind said:

Sparky, when you see that situation and it's a 16u or 18u pitcher, maybe one who is playing at a high level for her area, do you worry that making changes that would help her long term might have short term cost that would affect her immediate success?

It seems like when kids find a way to succeed despite a mechanical fault and they and the parents are satisfied with that, any change can be taboo. How do you get the "buy in" to make a change from both? Can you do that during the season?

Edited to add: Madsdad, we were typing at same time. You touched a little on what I'm asking I think.

Click to expand...

It would probably be near impossible to get them to change at that age. I've had them as young as 12 whose parents said they didn't want to change them, and they were not throwing hard then!

I just recently took on a total rebuild of a 14yr old. Shocking to me that she is going forward with it. Her 12yr old sister said, no way.

Madsdad said:

Coach James,

First let's exclude what I would consider a phenom, girls throwing low to mid 60s at age 12. I saw a girl last fall throwing 65/67, she was 13. Here in Wisconsin it seems that 58/60 as a freshman is not that uncommon but 55/56 pretty normal and what I would consider slower. These 58/60 girls seem to be the girls that threw hard with no regard for "good spin" Off balance, no brush, poor drive oh and yes hello elbow. Every one of their 5 pitches is the same just thrown on a angle and these girls are also the ones that have that amazing "rise ball"
I want to see if as juniors they were able to get anything over that. I would be willing to bet that the spin is still bad. Just seems like 60 is the new 55 for girls how work hard and stick with it long enough, and most importantly GET GOOD INFO

Click to expand...

What's good info for you? How can I get it? You seem to be saying that HE is better than IR?

Can you throw? Have you ever felt the difference between IR(throw) and HE(push)?