- Jun 7, 2013
- 984
- 0
I wonder how well the hitter would do if she was watching the pitcher's feet at that time instead of the ball?
A Telltale Game...
- Thread starter javasource
- Start date
Welcome to Discuss Fastpitch
Your FREE Account is waiting to the Best Softball Community on the Web.
- Oct 22, 2009
- 1,779
- 0
We were facing a pitcher in an 18 game once that grabbed her seams while the ball was on her leg. The only ones in the dugout that saw it were the other pitchers.
The closest I have come to taking a pitch off the forehead during "bucket time" was when I was trying to watch my DD's footwork during the pitch. If the batter is watching the pitchers feet for a "tell" there is a good chance she will have trouble picking up the pitch out of the hand.
javasource
6-4-3 = 2
I've been meaning to post an update on this thread for a long time... just now getting to reviewing a Texas game... only 83 games left! 
Really glad to see her fix the tell. She is going to be a really good pitcher for Texas.
Really glad to see her fix the tell. She is going to be a really good pitcher for Texas.
- Aug 21, 2008
- 2,386
- 113
Java.... as you know, I played with/against Earlywhine, White, Larabee, Rychcik (NC State), Eriksen (U. So Florida), Pete Turner (San Jose St) etc. More and more colleges are getting male fastpitch players to be on their staffs and this is ONE of the reasons why. I told this story earlier but this thread bears it's repeating... since she was 11 years old I worked with an Ohio girl who went on to play at Oregon and was already well schooled at reading pitchers. We worked on it. By the end of our time together, she was very good. The problem is, watch the benches at the WCWS... they aren't studying the pitcher for picks or tendencies. They are singing, chanting, hitting water bottles on the fence, etc. Meanwhile this 5'2 freshman from Ohio is likely to win NCAA freshman of the year hitting 3rd for Oregon. In men's fastpitch, picking the pitcher (and YES calling the pitches out is part of the game). It's not unethical. Hide the damn ball if you don't like it!! Stop having the coach give you signals that can easily be picked up. And when a hitter knows what's coming, that is 1/2 the battle. "DO IT" is the universal term for telling the hitter a change is coming. When I pitched and was in mid my wind up, if I heard "DO IT"... I purposely threw the ball in the ground or would throw it WAYYYYY outside. The psych advantage of a pitcher knowing the other team knows what your throwing is huge. When it happened to me, it meant I was being sloppy, they had my catcher picked, or they had something on me that I was unaware of. Unless you're trying to mess with the pitcher's head, it's best to disguise your pick so your hitters know and hear you but the pitcher doesn't know. Otherwise, the pitcher (or catcher) will make adjustments.
I do understand that many here have never seen a top level men's fastpitch game. Not a beer league game somewhere but, world class stuff. But the men's game is bleeding into the women's game rapidly. No, it's hemorrhaging into it. This is why you see girls turning sideways when they get their grips, thinking that alone will fool the coach. But there are so many ways to pick a pitcher. And 3/4 of these girls "hide their grip" then bring the ball back in front of them, then drop the ball out early for their 'backswing' which does little more than give the hitter ANOTHER chance to see the ball and the grip. So the ridiculous turn they do getting the grip is pointless.
Of course, Larabee "resigned" from Arkansas recently. So, Texas doesn't have to worry about that from him. But, the other guys who spent a career picking and reading pitchers will continue to infiltrate the women's game so everyone better get used to it.
Story time: in 2006, Ueno and Japan played in North America and she baffled USA with her change up, which obviously made her other pitches look better. What did Candrea do? He brought in a couple guys from the USA men's team and within an inning (one of which I know pretty well!) , had her change, and all the pitches picked. Relaying that to Candrea, USA hit Ueno and won. Japan knew something had happened, so in the 2007 before the Olympics in '08... Ueno didn't come. Japan thought better of letting the same thing happen, or USA getting ESPN camera's on her to get the pick. And, a year or so went by before USA saw Ueno who made changes to her delivery and bingo.. Japan wins Gold. Coincidence?
Java, I preach and preach about not giving away the pitches prior to the delivery. But to the younger ages they don't understand why, nor do parents. Now we all know why and the long term effects of not keeping things hidden.
Bill
I do understand that many here have never seen a top level men's fastpitch game. Not a beer league game somewhere but, world class stuff. But the men's game is bleeding into the women's game rapidly. No, it's hemorrhaging into it. This is why you see girls turning sideways when they get their grips, thinking that alone will fool the coach. But there are so many ways to pick a pitcher. And 3/4 of these girls "hide their grip" then bring the ball back in front of them, then drop the ball out early for their 'backswing' which does little more than give the hitter ANOTHER chance to see the ball and the grip. So the ridiculous turn they do getting the grip is pointless.
Of course, Larabee "resigned" from Arkansas recently. So, Texas doesn't have to worry about that from him. But, the other guys who spent a career picking and reading pitchers will continue to infiltrate the women's game so everyone better get used to it.
Story time: in 2006, Ueno and Japan played in North America and she baffled USA with her change up, which obviously made her other pitches look better. What did Candrea do? He brought in a couple guys from the USA men's team and within an inning (one of which I know pretty well!) , had her change, and all the pitches picked. Relaying that to Candrea, USA hit Ueno and won. Japan knew something had happened, so in the 2007 before the Olympics in '08... Ueno didn't come. Japan thought better of letting the same thing happen, or USA getting ESPN camera's on her to get the pick. And, a year or so went by before USA saw Ueno who made changes to her delivery and bingo.. Japan wins Gold. Coincidence?
Java, I preach and preach about not giving away the pitches prior to the delivery. But to the younger ages they don't understand why, nor do parents. Now we all know why and the long term effects of not keeping things hidden.
Bill
javasource
6-4-3 = 2
Good to see you posting again, Bill.
I've really had to crack down on these things with some of the older girls I work with that are committed or playing at this level. I think a lot of people get their panties in a bunch when we talk about single pumps on this site. I'm not against them... and at times, I will advocate for them... just depends on the grips a girl is using. But more importantly... I don't advocate for them with beginners that struggle with building momentum off the rubber. Once they get that under control... many will start to utilize some sort of single-pump and/or cradle and drop if the grip necessitates. That said, I've pitchers that make a killing with one grip... so the priority of hiding it is of less importance than the priority of establishing a rhythm with the pitcher. When I'm not looking at hands on the sidelines... I'm finding the tempo of a pitcher... as this is the most common tell, IMO. Sure, some will mix that up to, but most pitchers don't realize that they have a tempo tell... and it's pretty easy to pick.
It's for the reasons you state... and others... that I'm not a big fan of cupped changes, knuckles, etc. I feel that any pitch is attainable with a 2-seam or 4-seam grip... and if it's not... I've found very few knuckles and cuppers throwing a pitch that beats out the other options (in fastpitch). Granted, I only work with female athletes, and my days of playing mens fastpitch were nothing near as competitive as yours (*belch*... excuse me). Same goes for grips... with bent fingers... I think most of that stuff is novelty... and 2/3 that use it... aren't even applying pressure to a seam.... which really has be scratching my head.
Anyway... all of this and a Milli Vanilli (sp) concert... we ought to grab that beer...
One tell I've noticed with single-pump pitchers is how they shoot the ball out of the glove on the upswing. Some will show the green of the ball to the batter on a pitch... only to show the back of their hand on another.... or hold a cup... or cup their wrist. It's a really easy tell without the added momentum of an arm in motion.
Thanks for sharing! ~Mike
I've really had to crack down on these things with some of the older girls I work with that are committed or playing at this level. I think a lot of people get their panties in a bunch when we talk about single pumps on this site. I'm not against them... and at times, I will advocate for them... just depends on the grips a girl is using. But more importantly... I don't advocate for them with beginners that struggle with building momentum off the rubber. Once they get that under control... many will start to utilize some sort of single-pump and/or cradle and drop if the grip necessitates. That said, I've pitchers that make a killing with one grip... so the priority of hiding it is of less importance than the priority of establishing a rhythm with the pitcher. When I'm not looking at hands on the sidelines... I'm finding the tempo of a pitcher... as this is the most common tell, IMO. Sure, some will mix that up to, but most pitchers don't realize that they have a tempo tell... and it's pretty easy to pick.
It's for the reasons you state... and others... that I'm not a big fan of cupped changes, knuckles, etc. I feel that any pitch is attainable with a 2-seam or 4-seam grip... and if it's not... I've found very few knuckles and cuppers throwing a pitch that beats out the other options (in fastpitch). Granted, I only work with female athletes, and my days of playing mens fastpitch were nothing near as competitive as yours (*belch*... excuse me).
Same goes for grips... with bent fingers... I think most of that stuff is novelty... and 2/3 that use it... aren't even applying pressure to a seam.... which really has be scratching my head.Anyway... all of this and a Milli Vanilli (sp) concert... we ought to grab that beer...
One tell I've noticed with single-pump pitchers is how they shoot the ball out of the glove on the upswing. Some will show the green of the ball to the batter on a pitch... only to show the back of their hand on another.... or hold a cup... or cup their wrist. It's a really easy tell without the added momentum of an arm in motion.
Thanks for sharing! ~Mike
